Koprulu Terran population

[Karass]

I think "commanders of Nagglafar" means that they commanded the Nagglafar passangers, and the manual does state that the colonists initially used the supercarriers as a refuge.

[Turalyon]

Back on the topic of pop numbers and their feasibility...

What do you have to say about the pop. growth having to maintain an average of 80 million a year to get to the 20 billion mark? Assuming there are equal numbers of male to female, it would mean that all of the women would have to be constantly pregnant all the time from the get go with no deaths (wastes time you see) not to mention that the babies would have to wait at least 12 or so years (the females at least) before they too can (must in this case) breed.

I know pop growth is based on a log scale, but those first few years would be too slow to get to the 20 billion mark in just 250 years, afterall it took Earth (a place with ideal conditions) about 1800 years to get 1 billion. Then again, they have cloning technology so in the end, yes 20 billion is possible in 240 years.

[Karass]

What source says they have cloning technology.

There could well have been population growth boosts over these 240 years, especially in the first decades of colonization and on newly colonized worlds. Here's a post from SC Legacy with the pretty damn good analysis of population matter:

Roughly 275 hundred years ago, 40,000 terran were sent to the korprulu sector. Within the first 100 years, their would be a period of instability. Factoring in both the alien environment with the increased life expectancy, it would be logical that death rate is .8% or so, roughly what we have today, the hostile enviroment counterbalancing vastly improved med tech. Birth would be high, lets put the average at 5, something comparable to developing nations today. (it is higher, because the terran population can afford to sustain this rapid growth because of vastly improved tech and a planet of untapped resources). Lets assume five generations are created within the century, something else comparable to developing nations.

After a century, we get 125,000,000 people, factor in the death rate, and we get roughly 85 million left standing.

The next 175 years, the population should stabilize to say, 3 births, but the death rate would go down to say, .7%, kept up only because of wars, and 25 years per generation. All reasonable estimates.

That gives a whopping 65 billion people, and after factoring death rates, leaves us with 19 billion.

Factors that limit population size, like land available, and resources, are less problematic due to colonial expansion into several solar systems, terraforming, and tech like sustainable cold fusion.

Makes sense.

Though there is a couple of mistakes (there were 32k original colonists, not 40k, supercarries arrived in Tarsonis System 240, instead of 275), they don't significally affect the calculations. My point is basically the same as this posts.

[Karass]

And here's another good point (too from SC Legacy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

I wish I could use all those population growth equations from the days of Environmental Science, but I am absolutely horrible with retention and relearning on my own basis. I need to be forced this stuff to be competent with it.

However, looking at the graphs via wikipedia, you can see that the world population jumped exponentially from the 1700s to 2000s. While that is indeed three centuries, much of the growth between the 1700s and 1900s was from the European nations and its descendants (US, Canada). It wasn't until the 1930s-40s that the whole world population jumped together.

A large misconception of why our population is so high is that people believe greater technology and the more ease of food allowed people to grow so fast. Unfortunately, that is not true. Humans have always had an extremely high population growth, with the exception of Europe and Japan of today. It is modern medicine and the ability to lower mortality rates in which we jumped. This has forced the doubling rate (the rate at which a population will double itself) below 100 years, less than a century.

The Koprulu Terrans have technology far greater than what we have today. There is no doubt that they can lower the mortality rate to a very minuscule number (despite murders and crime). You also must recall that Terrans there don't act like we do. They recreated the Confederacy and had "Old Families" much like in the antebellum South. These families had up to 10-12 children.

So, compound high birthrate with low doubling rate, and you'll get to a billion in no time. Though of course, I'm not sure it wholly adds up from Terran landing to post-Brood War, but it's somewhat plausible in my mind.

[Turalyon]

I was just playing devil's advocate for those who'd want to question your numbers. As you have found out, the topic's been covered well and truly.

What source says they have cloning technology.

As for this, the manual states that prior to the 'exile' the "manipulative sciences of cybernetics, cloning and gene-splicing rose steadily into the public forum". The UPL eventually banned all of this and rounded up all these 'criminals', some of which were versed in those sciences or a product of those techs. Some of these would have made their way onto the supercarriers. So it's feasible that cloning tech may have been utilised to help supplement the old-fashioned way to bring that population up.

[Karass]

Yes, cloning could have also been used.

[Kimera757]

I know pop growth is based on a log scale, but those first few years would be too slow to get to the 20 billion mark in just 250 years, afterall it took Earth (a place with ideal conditions) about 1800 years to get 1 billion. Then again, they have cloning technology so in the end, yes 20 billion is possible in 240 years.

But you're talking about a situation that doesn't matter in the K-Sector. On Earth, doctors didn't even wash their hands until the late 1700s as they didn't know about bacteria then.

The K-Sector refugees would at least know basic hygiene, and have better tech than people who live in the year 1800. Infant mortality would have been much less then.

And, of course, Earth wasn't empty of human life since about 150,000 years ago, or more. Tarsonis, Umoja and Moria were pristine and unspoiled when the terrans first landed.

[Lupino]

As for this, the manual states that prior to the 'exile' the "manipulative sciences of cybernetics, cloning and gene-splicing rose steadily into the public forum". The UPL eventually banned all of this and rounded up all these 'criminals', some of which were versed in those sciences or a product of those techs. Some of these would have made their way onto the supercarriers. So it's feasible that cloning tech may have been utilised to help supplement the old-fashioned way to bring that population up.

If there was cloning tech in mass use, we probably would've heard of it by now; especially if we're talking about cloning on the scale of population growth. You wouldn't even need resoc criminals to fill your ranks, just clone your army (And we shall call it, the Grand Army of the Confederacy...)

Anyways, since we do now have some idea of what the total population could be, plus the time period, figuring out the rate of growth is easy. With a starting pop of 32,000 and ending of ~20 billion, would need to grow at a rate of ~5.7%. That's higher than even the poorest shithole of a third world nation, but it's possible I suppose. People live longer, have more babies (a lot more babies), fewer people die each year, etc.

Of all the things Blizzard could've retcon, this at least would've been the least offensive and made the most sense.

[Turalyon]

But you're talking about a situation that doesn't matter in the K-Sector. On Earth, doctors didn't even wash their hands until the late 1700s as they didn't know about bacteria then.

The K-Sector refugees would at least know basic hygiene, and have better tech than people who live in the year 1800. Infant mortality would have been much less then.

And, of course, Earth wasn't empty of human life since about 150,000 years ago, or more. Tarsonis, Umoja and Moria were pristine and unspoiled when the terrans first landed.

I conceded this point earlier...

With a starting pop of 32,000 and ending of ~20 billion, would need to grow at a rate of ~5.7%. That's higher than even the poorest shithole of a third world nation, but it's possible I suppose.

That is a glaring stat you've pointed out. Having to sustain ~6% growth rate is no mean feat, especially when the K-Sector is constantly in a state of war.

If there was cloning tech in mass use, we probably would've heard of it by now; especially if we're talking about cloning on the scale of population growth. You wouldn't even need resoc criminals to fill your ranks, just clone your army (And we shall call it, the Grand Army of the Confederacy...)

Who says they haven't used some of this tech already? It was already accepted as part of their 'culture' before they were rounded up Earth.
Also, it's possibly easier, cheaper and media friendly/socially acceptable to resoc criminals than just cloning people for the sole means of cannon fodder?

Then again, I find it somewhat hard to believe that the population will be outraged by cloning people for wars given they accepted genetic mutation, cybernetic and cloning to immoral levels back on Earth (leading the to UPL to try and cull them).

[FanaticTemplar]

Maybe they can't age clones at great speeds, and the financial strain of supporting these numbers of people for fifteen-twenty years before they are capable of serving as troops would make it a poor investment. After all, troops are usually needed now not in fifteen years.