Tempest Discussion

[Crazy_Jonny]

how about they make the shurikens shoot out psi blades??

...what?

[Wankey]

Interceptors with psi blades? That's completely absurd and stupid. It's a downgrade from interceptors. What, do you think psi blades can cut through every single material ever conceived like a knife through hot butter?

Yes, I don't see how the Protoss could possibly lose with tempests if that were the case, all they would have to do is send a few shurikens through a battlecruiser a few times and the entire thing would fall in half.

I don't see why they don't just drop Zealots on battlecruisers and have them cut holes through the armour so they can go inside and kill the crew members.

You're making no sense. this is a game, and trying to find logic in these things is pointless. If zealots psi blades can cut through anything, a 500mph super sharp super hard with atomic de-atomizer for edges projectile like flying saucer can slice through a battlecruiser.

The point of the matter is, the model is merely a reskin of the tempest. Nothing more. Replace the name with Tempest and interceptors with melee interceptors, you have literally the Tempest. At least with the tempest, the unit seemed original and had its own lore. The new Carrier isn't anything interesting, even its model is a cop out of another unit.

[Aldrius]

Okay, I'll tell you guys why I liked the Tempest to get this discussion going.

In my mind, the Protoss, Terran and Zerg all have a specific way of working when it comes to how they work. Zerg are generalists. They're good against everything damage-wise. Some of them do AoE (like the Lurker) some of them have range, but very few of them have attack bonuses. Mostly where counters come in is in what they're vulnerable to. (Which is why the fastest moving, highest-damaging unit that can hit the most targets - the Mutalisk is the strongest in ZvZ.)

Terran are multi-use. They're not good against everything, but every unit (for the most part) has more than one use. The Siege Tank is a good moving assault unit, or a long-range AoE attacker. The Goliath is a good ground-based assault unit or a good anti-armored air unit. Same going for the Wraith.

Meanwhile, the Protoss are all about specialization. For the most part, the Zealot is a REALLY powerful unit, but isn't as versatile in it's use as the Zergling or Marine is. Same with Reavers or High Templar or Dark Templar. All very specific uses. In my mind, the Dragoon and Carrier didn't fit this formula. Now, the Dragoons been fixed by being split into the Immortal and the Stalker, but the Carrier is still the out of place misfit it always was.

In my mind, the Tempest fixed this. It had the Carrier stats and power, but only against ground units, they were pretty vulnerable against air units with no shields. (Which has always been the Carriers main weakness really fast/durable air units) With the shortened range, the affordable price, and the achilles heel I liked the Tempest a lot.

But I don't expect they'll be changing it back at this point. Unless the Carrier proves REALLY unpopular and they need something desperate to make it more useable.

[Wankey]

Good post Aldrus, that is my belief as well. I believe the Tempest should be in the game, because it felt new and different. The void ray + tempest combo would be a cool new addition to game lore into making the protoss feel more connected with both sides. Now it is half half with the mothership being on the high end and the scout being on the low.

But I doubt that will happen at all. Hopefully when beta rolls around, when they see how boring the carrier is, they might throw in the tempest for a while. Lets hope.

[Noise]

My god. Do you see this Blizzard?! Look at this thread! Can you not see how desperate we are for the Beta? End our suffering, I beg you!!

Eheheh

[Wankey]

I think beta was mentioned like 5 times consequtively

[Pandonetho]

You're making no sense. this is a game, and trying to find logic in these things is pointless. If zealots psi blades can cut through anything, a 500mph super sharp super hard with atomic de-atomizer for edges projectile like flying saucer can slice through a battlecruiser.

Normally I would reply to this with a long paragraph or a wall or something, but seeing how you pulled things completely out of your ass, I see you're just ignorant and I'll leave it.

[MattII]

In my mind, the Tempest fixed this. It had the Carrier stats and power, but only against ground units, they were pretty vulnerable against air units with no shields. (Which has always been the Carriers main weakness really fast/durable air units) With the shortened range, the affordable price, and the achilles heel I liked the Tempest a lot.

You don't think they could have gone for a more obvious solution and made an AtGA ship with all-round shields, rather than the decidedly un-Protoss ship the Tempest was?

But I don't expect they'll be changing it back at this point. Unless the Carrier proves REALLY unpopular and they need something desperate to make it more useable.

The Tempest will be unlikely to replace it if this happens, hells, the Tempest is the Carrier, just with a nerfing mechanic.

Good post Aldrus, that is my belief as well. I believe the Tempest should be in the game, because it felt new and different. The void ray + tempest combo would be a cool new addition to game lore into making the protoss feel more connected with both sides. Now it is half half with the mothership being on the high end and the scout being on the low.

The Tempest was half-baked, it was still a carrier, but to make it 'feel' new they added in the no air shield thing, and replaced the Interceptors with Shurikens.

But I doubt that will happen at all. Hopefully when beta rolls around, when they see how boring the carrier is, they might throw in the tempest for a while. Lets hope.

The Tempest will last a week if it gets in, just long enough for them to come up with a half-decent solution rather than a half-baked one.

[Wankey]

Normally I would reply to this with a long paragraph or a wall or something, but seeing how you pulled things completely out of your ass, I see you're just ignorant and I'll leave it.

The entire Starcraft lore is someone pulling stuff out of their ass. Your point is mute. I'm ignorant? At what exactly? Your points make no sense and simply aggravate argument about pointless things nobody will notice. If the unit works well, the lore can be fitted to make it sound well. You're simply using the I'm better/smarter than you so I will say you're stupid and end the argument. There is absolutely no point to your argument. It has no bearing on the game what so ever. My argument is quite clear, the carrier is STILL using a model made 2 years ago for Tempest. Why not just rename it Tempest and bring it back? It's literally the same shit in terms of gameplay wise. Nobody even uses the carrier anyway. And people who have say it's a bad unit.

The Tempest was half-baked, it was still a carrier, but to make it 'feel' new they added in the no air shield thing, and replaced the Interceptors with Shurikens.

Okay. So the Stalker is just a dragoon with blink. The immortal is just a dragoon with hardened shield. The carrier is a boring unit and has been said by many progamers that have played SC2. It simply doesn't fit in SC2 anymore. I don't understand why everyone is so against the Tempest. Yeah, if they put it back in, they *wait for it* might change it! SC2's carrier, I believe, is quite the half baked idea. There's nothing special about it, and it feels like Blizzard just put it in for nostalgic sake. We'll see what happens to it during Beta, I hope something remarkable.

[Aldrius]

You don't think they could have gone for a more obvious solution and made an AtGA ship with all-round shields, rather than the decidedly un-Protoss ship the Tempest was?

No, that would have been boring and it would have just been identical to the Guardian and Banshee. Rather than something you'd want to use as an affordable shield to missile turrets (in combination with say, Void Rays) you'd just take care of that yourself. It doesn't force any strategy whatsoever.

The Tempest will be unlikely to replace it if this happens, hells, the Tempest is the Carrier, just with a nerfing mechanic.

So? That makes it different. If they increased it's speed and lowered it's range, it'd COMPLETELY change how the unit works.

The Tempest was half-baked, it was still a carrier, but to make it 'feel' new they added in the no air shield thing, and replaced the Interceptors with Shurikens.

Again, this COMPLETELY changes how the unit is microed. It also opens up a bunch of new strategies. With the Tempest's low price, it could be used earlier in the game, you wouldn't need to mass them up, you could use them as meat shields for some of your high-damage flying units. Instead the Carrier is too expensive to put at risk like that unless he's dealing substantial damage with other Carriers.

I admit it's only a slightly larger change than the zealot gaining the charge ability, but that's a major change for that unit too anyway. It'd be WORTH it, is all I'm saying.

The entire Starcraft lore is someone pulling stuff out of their ass.

Some of it is, not all of it is, though. Some of it is actually pretty well thought out.