Tempest Discussion

[MattII]

Well, Blizzard did design the Tempest with ground-facing shields, meaning that as far as they are concerned, the concept of directionalized shields is acceptable to them and indeed possible with Protoss technology. This is good enough for me.

For you, maybe, but not for me.

That the concept was later chucked to be replaced by the Carrier had nothing to do with lore consistency. In fact, it's entirely possible that the Tempest might appear in the campaign.

I wouldn't bet on it, this time round at least.

Whether civilian or military, the principle is the same; a specialist will be better at its role than a generalist as the latter is designed on the basis of compromise between its various roles.

That only works if the specialist isn't required to fill other roles, which means that as good as your theory is, it doesn't mesh with the situation in hand, because as good as the Tempest would be at hitting ground targets, the Zerg would have forced the DT to adapt them to at least offer token defence against AtA.

As for the production of escort carriers is concerned, I don't understand how this backs your point.

Many were converted to fill a perceived lack in the navy, the same way DT ships (including the Tempest) would have to be.

That's a superficial similarity. The Carrier =/= the Tempest. They have different niches, with the former being a generalist and capital ship where as the latter being a cheaper (and most likely smaller) specialist craft brought in once the skies have been cleared.

Superficial similarity of not, I suspect that was a big reason it got dropped.

I'm talking about lore which specifically states that the Phoenix is highly suited for air-to-air-combat.

It also mentions being suitable for strafing light ground targets, and for still having Overload, so I'd suggest that the lore needs updating.

[mr. peasant]

For you, maybe, but not for me.

So, you're not satisfied that the lore masters (i.e. those who decide what's 'fact' in the game) essentially said 'yes, ground-facing shields are possible' despite there not being a single shred of evidence to the contrary?

Very well, we know that the Protoss can shape their shields. Immortals have dome-shaped ones where as the buildings' shields tend to roughly follow their basic shape (at least in cinematics).

I wouldn't bet on it, this time round at least.

Perhaps not for the Terran campaign. However, it's likelier in the DT-centric-sounding Protoss campaign.

That only works if the specialist isn't required to fill other roles, which means that as good as your theory is, it doesn't mesh with the situation in hand, because as good as the Tempest would be at hitting ground targets, the Zerg would have forced the DT to adapt them to at least offer token defence against AtA.

Precisely. With the existing armada, the Protoss have Phoenixes to handle light fliers and Void Rays to take out the heavier vessels. This leaves the Tempests free to focus on ground forces; being brought in once the air space is less hot. Yes, it all sounds very specialized but that's how an air force generally works.

Many were converted to fill a perceived lack in the navy, the same way DT ships (including the Tempest) would have to be.

And how does this support your arguments that the Tempest's shields are impossible/impractical or that the unit itself doesn't have a place in the Protoss armada?

I apologize if I'm sounding thick but I don't see the Protoss really needing a mobile fighter launcher as it has access to warp technology along with the Mothership which can house far larger fighters. As gunships, Tempests better serve the Protoss' lack of ATG firepower.

Superficial similarity of not, I suspect that was a big reason it got dropped.

Yes, their similarities led Blizzard to opt for the Carrier instead. However, it did not make the Tempest an 'aircraft carrier' in function.

It also mentions being suitable for strafing light ground targets, and for still having Overload, so I'd suggest that the lore needs updating.

But seeing as how its armaments are only able to attack air units, it goes to reason that it will be well suited for air-to-air combat. Otherwise, the unit would be useless.

[MattII]

So, you're not satisfied that the lore masters (i.e. those who decide what's 'fact' in the game) essentially said 'yes, ground-facing shields are possible' despite there not being a single shred of evidence to the contrary?

We don't know, with the Carrier having a recoloured Tempest model, if the Tempest itself is still canon, it may be, but it may not be either.

Very well, we know that the Protoss can shape their shields. Immortals have dome-shaped ones where as the buildings' shields tend to roughly follow their basic shape (at least in cinematics).

I haven't seen this, myself, so I'll have to take your word on it.

Perhaps not for the Terran campaign. However, it's likelier in the DT-centric-sounding Protoss campaign.

Perhaps.

Precisely. With the existing armada, the Protoss have Phoenixes to handle light fliers and Void Rays to take out the heavier vessels. This leaves the Tempests free to focus on ground forces; being brought in once the air space is less hot. Yes, it all sounds very specialized but that's how an air force generally works.

And how does this support your arguments that the Tempest's shields are impossible/impractical or that the unit itself doesn't have a place in the Protoss armada?

Terrans can heal/repair their units, the Zerg regenerate, and the Protoss have shields, they're practically racial identities, so, units just, don't work, if they don't fit them, and the Tempest lacking AtA shields just doesn't fit, no matter how good its GtA shield is.

I apologize if I'm sounding thick but I don't see the Protoss really needing a mobile fighter launcher as it has access to warp technology along with the Mothership which can house far larger fighters. As gunships, Tempests better serve the Protoss' lack of ATG firepower.

Are you saying the Tempest should become a gunship while the MShip becomes a carrier?

Yes, their similarities led Blizzard to opt for the Carrier instead. However, it did not make the Tempest an 'aircraft carrier' in function.

Nor is it a 'Battleship' in function, that role belongs to the MShip, although using naval analogies is erroneous, since normally navy and army would only meet on the beach, not miles inland

But seeing as how its armaments are only able to attack air units, it goes to reason that it will be well suited for air-to-air combat. Otherwise, the unit would be useless.

Oh I don't know, I predict Anti-gravity will get a fair amount of use, I mean you can disable STs, Immortals, Roaches, Queens, Infestors, HTs, Banelings, etc.

[TheEconomist]

What I miss is the uniqueness of it. A special sheild against ground attacks and a microable skill to optimize interceptor (ehe, shuriken) numbers. Was pretty interesting for a late tier unit, in my opinion.

[GRUNT]

Tychus, I think you just got owned by a bot .

[Todie]

WTF we got bots performing random acts of necromancy now?? wat is the internet coming to??

[TheEconomist]

Nevermind.

Not ownage though, I knew.

[Hav0x]

Nevermind.

Not ownage though, I knew.

Mmmhmmm... we believe you.

Since this thread has been resurrected. What does everyone think about maybe turning the carrier back into the tempest for HotS? It's not like carriers are ever used anyway.

[TheEconomist]

Mmmhmmm... we believe you.

I responded to his other necro's before this and said I knew it was a necro then, why would I forget for this one?

[Twilice]

What is the difference between a tempest and a carrier apart from the name gameplay wise?