Any win is a good win, do you agree?

[spychi]

I win almost every time I'm cheesed. It's not particularly hard to beat since I scout every nook & cranny of the map on ladder now. It's a part of the game but I don't find it a particularly fun part of the game, and neither am I obligated to respect anyone who thinks they can steal an easy win.

when the new patch will hit I'd like to show you that you are wrong lol, I know that you writed "almost every time" yet there is one very cheesy pvp early push strat that is deadly and soo annoying

[Gradius]

Lol that's a sweeping generalization with absolutely no factual evidence.

Obviously. We're discussing a vague term here that almost everyone has a different definition for.

So now anything a professional player says is automatically the verdict for everyone? Wow, I used to think bad mannered players were annoying but I guess since Idra does it it's cool.

Uhm, I never said it was the verdict for everyone, I just gave an example.

I never said I respected those players more than anyone else. In fact, I technically never even said I respected those players.

Great, then why do you "support anyone who respects players who do".

How do you know which players do that? Are you mad after someone 8-pools because you assume they do it every game or do you give them the benefit of the doubt and think they may have just done it this time to "stay fresh"?

I said I don't mind 8 pool at all. It's a totally valid strat.

And my point was that on a more broad note, I do not mind the player who only experiments with cheese but does not live off it. From the point of view of one ladder game, yeah I have no reason to respect the player from the one game that I do play with him, regardless of whether he does it all the time or not. The cheesing player shows you minimal respect, so I do likewise unless I know him personally or something.

That's been done since SC1. Since when is that not fun? Hell, I'd say seeing a professional player pull off producing units from a building inside the opponent's base is way more fun to watch than a long robot-like macro game.

This thread is not about spectating games. Obviously people will enjoy Boxer's Barracks Float or any kind of highly risky move in a tournament where prize money is on the line, but none of the cheese on ladder seems to be very creative, and a very small percent of it is even well executed.

when the new patch will hit I'd like to show you that you are wrong lol, I know that you writed "almost every time" yet there is one very cheesy pvp early push strat that is deadly and soo annoying

What is it? :P

[spychi]

What is it? :P

you'll see, it's the most annoying thing you can imagine

[Raif]

I don't "cheese" or do all ins my self, not yet anyway, I'm still to much of a macro based player

But I must say, that some of the games that I have had the most fun with, have started with my opponent trying to cheese me, I then hold it off, and the "cheese'ing" player then has a next step, so we get an "Long" intensive game.

So I totally respect a player who try cheese, as long as they are respectful about it. People that leaves the game or are BM, after you defend/loose to it, I can't stand.

[JackhammerIV]

you'll see, it's the most annoying thing you can imagine

Cosidering you said next patch....but next patch notes for toss the only possible rush it could help is blink stalker rush. Cheaper obs, faster hallucinate, faster phoenix. Good for vision to blink. VR rush is about the same as it is now since they only get massive buff. With cheaper obs DT rush is slightly less effective. There's no change to warp gate time or gateway unit timing....any number of gateway/warpgate push remains the same......What is this annoying early rush PvP that you speak of spychi???

[Duckyyy]

depends on how you define "rush"

reckless early expansions or fast-teching is most effectively faught by early timing attacks; if you spot your opponent being reckless early and opt not to punish them "just because" then yes, its probably bad.

a zerg player that hates to cheese however? thats probably quite normal and not bad in any general sense (though, in a consistent competitive context, refusing to cheese at all might make you predictable)

if i see a reckless early expo then ill go 5 roaches backed up by mass speeds.

the amount of games ive played where a zerg has 6 pooled me simply because he thought and i quote "zerg are the easiest to rush without consequence" and ive beaten it back with drones is becoming a feat i like considering im hardly losing to cheese anymore, then when i get my pool out + my advantage of those 6+ extra drones i usually get a rage quitter as he sees the masses of speedlings backed up by banes.

cannon rushes are the only one i dont like, simply because using your drones to kill thep robe pylons simply means even though he wasted that mins hes slowly making up for it while your all out denying the rush.

[DemolitionSquid]

I think this might help make the thread a bit clearer.

[kyr200]

Personally I have no respect for the players that relies on their opponent making mistakes and not their own superiority.

Not all wins are good. I personally play this game to get better not get the most "wtf most orgasmic score"

There is a difference between a cheese and an opening that you've scouted.

[MulletBen]

"Sorry, the map"

Well, I really can't blame him. I doubt there's another map in the pool that a 12-drone rush actually works on. Even BS has a significantly longer rush distance.

GG

[Skyze]

Ideally when the game is balanced, you should be able to defend ANYTHING with proper scouting, therefor it will be true that at a top level, "Any win is a good win"

Example; right now I am pretty confident I could stop any sort of cheese rush build, because I know how to scout and etc properly. I may fall to one due to a mental lapse in scouting one game out of ~50, but 99% of the time I can stop any cheese or at least have a fighting chance. The only thing that is super strong right now is SCV all-in's with marines just due to the fact your units focus fire on scvs over any attacking unit, but once thats fixed, the game is fine.

As a top player (I mean diamond and above), you should ALWAYS be prepared to stop any cheese, with proper scouting and safe builds (or calculated risks)