Poll: Should the UED be included in HotS and/or LotV?

[FanaticTemplar]

Здравствуйте (or so I hope the internets have not failed me :P) RussianSpy, and I always welcome help and criticism .

Please take no offence if I only respond to some parts of your post, it was interesting, but it will allow greater clarity if I only reply to the more important segments or the points of contention. Be sure to repeat anything you feel I may have missed.

I agree that the concept of Earth is potentially very interesting. Objectively, it's no more important than Zerus, but because the players are from Earth, it immediately resonates with them. I imagine it is similar to the way that when watching some movie or series in which the world gets invaded or struck by some global catastrophe, I always try to figure out what happened to Canada in that setting, not because it's actually important, but because I live there. I don't know if other people do the same.

I also agree that the failings of the UED are not due to its characters. Both DuGalle and Stukov were very interesting characters, and I do not regret their inclusion, though I might have preferred if they had been Kel-Morian or Umojan officers instead.

However, even though this serves as a strong foundation for a story, there needs to be a good story concept to go with it. Simply sending a fleet to take over the Sector is, well, boring. Because we've just had the Zerg Swarm do that, and the UED don't have the character of the Swarm.

Maybe if they'd given Earth some entirely unique perspective, it could have worked. I don't know what. Something that we haven't already seen from the local Terrans. The only qualities the UED had over the Dominion was that they were from Earth, and had bigger guns. That's not solid characterisation.

Besides, if they had instead played newly throned Mengsk abusing the fact that the Protoss and Zerg had been drastically weakened by their war to try imposing Terran supremacy over them, then we could have realistically made Terrans a significant player in the world. I needn't remind you that at the end of Wings of Liberty, half the Dominion fleet assaults Char while the Swarm is mostly dispersed throughout the Koprulu Sector hunting artifacts. And yet, this imposing army is shown to be hopelessly overwhelmed by the Zerg garrison and without hope of survival if the artifact failed. And many fans still thought this was being too generous to the Terrans. This is not conflict between three powerful races - Terrans are not allowed to be competitive with either of the other two, and frankly Protoss hasn't been doing too well lately either. Being the underdog is fine, but the current situation is what caused the near total absence of Terrans in the second half of the original StarCraft. The UED allowed a temporary fix to this solution by bringing in a powerful Terran fleet from elsewhere, but a more permanent solution requires that the local Terrans even out the playing field, and the death of the Overmind and fall of Aiur were the perfect opportunity for this. Both the Protoss and Zerg were suddenly greatly weakened, while the only real losses in Terran strength came from a few fringe worlds and the Confederate forces that had fallen defending Tarsonis.

The heart of the matter is that while Earth is not a bad story element, the substory that developed from it was flawed, and in my opinion detrimental to the overall progression of the Koprulu Sector. Maybe if they'd been introduced in a different way, or at a different timing, or for different reasons, they could have been a fantastic addition to the lore, but as it is, they left a sour impression on me. There is no logical reason for me to oppose their return - I cannot know what their new story could be - I just dread that it might turn out as it did in Brood War.

[RussianSpy27]

Здравствуйте (or so I hope the internets have not failed me :P) RussianSpy, and I always welcome help and criticism .

Please take no offence if I only respond to some parts of your post, it was interesting, but it will allow greater clarity if I only reply to the more important segments or the points of contention. Be sure to repeat anything you feel I may have missed.

I agree that the concept of Earth is potentially very interesting. Objectively, it's no more important than Zerus, but because the players are from Earth, it immediately resonates with them. I imagine it is similar to the way that when watching some movie or series in which the world gets invaded or struck by some global catastrophe, I always try to figure out what happened to Canada in that setting, not because it's actually important, but because I live there. I don't know if other people do the same.

I also agree that the failings of the UED are not due to its characters. Both DuGalle and Stukov were very interesting characters, and I do not regret their inclusion, though I might have preferred if they had been Kel-Morian or Umojan officers instead.

However, even though this serves as a strong foundation for a story, there needs to be a good story concept to go with it. Simply sending a fleet to take over the Sector is, well, boring. Because we've just had the Zerg Swarm do that, and the UED don't have the character of the Swarm.

Maybe if they'd given Earth some entirely unique perspective, it could have worked. I don't know what. Something that we haven't already seen from the local Terrans. The only qualities the UED had over the Dominion was that they were from Earth, and had bigger guns. That's not solid characterisation.

Besides, if they had instead played newly throned Mengsk abusing the fact that the Protoss and Zerg had been drastically weakened by their war to try imposing Terran supremacy over them, then we could have realistically made Terrans a significant player in the world. I needn't remind you that at the end of Wings of Liberty, half the Dominion fleet assaults Char while the Swarm is mostly dispersed throughout the Koprulu Sector hunting artifacts. And yet, this imposing army is shown to be hopelessly overwhelmed by the Zerg garrison and without hope of survival if the artifact failed. And many fans still thought this was being too generous to the Terrans. This is not conflict between three powerful races - Terrans are not allowed to be competitive with either of the other two, and frankly Protoss hasn't been doing too well lately either. Being the underdog is fine, but the current situation is what caused the near total absence of Terrans in the second half of the original StarCraft. The UED allowed a temporary fix to this solution by bringing in a powerful Terran fleet from elsewhere, but a more permanent solution requires that the local Terrans even out the playing field, and the death of the Overmind and fall of Aiur were the perfect opportunity for this. Both the Protoss and Zerg were suddenly greatly weakened, while the only real losses in Terran strength came from a few fringe worlds and the Confederate forces that had fallen defending Tarsonis.

The heart of the matter is that while Earth is not a bad story element, the substory that developed from it was flawed, and in my opinion detrimental to the overall progression of the Koprulu Sector. Maybe if they'd been introduced in a different way, or at a different timing, or for different reasons, they could have been a fantastic addition to the lore, but as it is, they left a sour impression on me. There is no logical reason for me to oppose their return - I cannot know what their new story could be - I just dread that it might turn out as it did in Brood War.

What you wrote is "Zdravstvuyte" which in literal linguistic translation = "[I wish you to] feel well/healthy" and in vernacular simply means "Hello" in a more official/respectful form of a greeting.

A standard Russian greeting that is "prive't" - short form of Russian word for "Greetings" that's informally used and simply means "Hi/hey".

But anyway...I feel the logistical problems of the UED could have been solved simply with an extra mission introducing Duran (or an organization he runs, or his "family name" etc) as a loyal source for Earth. Players would initially wonder as to how the source was able to transmit accurate and swift (light speed) info to the UED but upon discovering that Duran is a servant of a super powered entity, everything would immediately make sense.

Psionic limiter should have been constructed on earth and empowered with a Protoss tech in a mission.

Overmind should have been imprisoned not just by drugs but some more display of acquired Tech - as simple as that.

But even so, as opposed to WOL, everything else about the UED was quite good and memorable and I do not regret one bit that they created that campaign.

[phazonjunkie]

The problem of the UED's nigh-godly intel on the Koprulu sector could probably have made more sense if the old (debunked?) theory proved true; namely Doran Routhe=Samir Duran. IIRC the whole colonization experiment was conceived and funded by him in the first place.

In regards the UED subduing the 2nd Overmind simply by keeping it doped up, I think it was stated in the 'victory report' that it was Directorate Psychics in addition to powerful drugs that were keeping it pacified. But I agree even the whole thing does seem pretty silly given what we know about the Zerg & the Overmind.

[FanaticTemplar]

But even so, as opposed to WOL, everything else about the UED was quite good and memorable and I do not regret one bit that they created that campaign.

Well, that's fine. Enjoying or not enjoying something ultimately comes down to taste. While I really enjoyed The Iron Fist, none of what made it enjoyable was really relevant to the UED coming from Earth, largely it was the relationship between the characters, and they could as easily have been Dominion or Umojan or Kel-Morian.

If it was just the flaws and lack of impact of the UED, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with them, they'd be like the Tal'darim with interesting characters. What really irritates me is that they took up space that I think could have been better spent developing other storylines which would have been more contributive to the world.

[RussianSpy27]

Well, that's fine. Enjoying or not enjoying something ultimately comes down to taste. While I really enjoyed The Iron Fist, none of what made it enjoyable was really relevant to the UED coming from Earth, largely it was the relationship between the characters, and they could as easily have been Dominion or Umojan or Kel-Morian.

If it was just the flaws and lack of impact of the UED, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with them, they'd be like the Tal'darim with interesting characters. What really irritates me is that they took up space that I think could have been better spent developing other storylines which would have been more contributive to the world.

Look at the silver lining, F.T, we would have always wondered what the heck is Earth up to if not for the UED's interference, although I agree with what you're saying - having a Mengsk vs other K.Sector factions may have worked better.

They had a chance to solidify a brand new faction into the lore with a possibility of continuity. Still, UED has earned to be missed because with all due issues, they did enough things right. I wish they found a way to continue their involvement...if only in downloadable campaigns.

Anyway, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say in your final essay on the campaigns.


~RS

[Pandonetho]

Well, that's fine. Enjoying or not enjoying something ultimately comes down to taste. While I really enjoyed The Iron Fist, none of what made it enjoyable was really relevant to the UED coming from Earth, largely it was the relationship between the characters, and they could as easily have been Dominion or Umojan or Kel-Morian.

Even though what you say is true to some degree, the UED was still a well made faction. They brought power and menace, none of which the Kel Morians or the Umojans could do. I doubt either of those 2 could force a unification among all 3 major players to fight back the greater power.

[Turalyon]

the UED was still a well made faction.

This is debatable. In terms of gameplay, they're pretty much your run of the mill Terrans with a few new units. In terms of story, they're a fleshed out plot-device which could've been replaced by the Dominion. At this point of the story, the Dominion didn't really get a chance to flex its muscle. It would have been nice to see the Dominion as a force for change in the Terrans because the Confedaracy prior to it was becoming pretty tame. The last time we heard of the Dominion in SC1 was a sporadic 'visit' from Duke in the Protoss campaign and the last time we heard Mengsk up until BW was his inauguration.

They had a chance to really justify Mengsk's control of the Terran sector and overall sense of menace instead of turning him and the Dominion into the anemic state that they are now. BW made the mistake of crippling the Dominion (by UED) before it had its limelight.

Don't take me out of context though. I love the concept of the UED - there's plenty of potential in them from what we actually got in BW but they could've been implemented better. I'd have thought that if BW had centred more on the Kerrigan/Swarm and Mengsk/Dominion dynamic with some foreshadowing of the UED, the UED would be a much better villain in SC2 than this Dark Voice thing..

[Blizzmaniac]

I hope to see the UED again. With a more powerful fleet, and kickins some serious butts

[solidsamurai]

the Terrans don't even look like they play a role in the great scheme of things (unless Mengsk really IS involved with Duran in the creation of the hybrids).

The terran never play a role. That's the point 'n it?

[vIsitor]

At the present time, I don't believe that the UED should send another fleet, as that would almost invariably turn into a rehash of the Brood War plot. Later maybe, with some proper foreshadowing this time. Perhaps after a StarCraft spin-off game dealing with a rebellion back on Earth?

However, I do want to see Stukov get involved in the SC2 storyline. Sure, the retcon was clumsy, but its been long-since canonized. He's alive, and, he being a significant character, something really ought to be done with that development. While the circumstances of his sudden resurrection are admittedly hackneyed, that doesn't prevent the writers from making good use of the development anyway. Personally, I'd rather like to see Blizzard redeem themselves by using that particular misstep to begin a story arc epic enough to forgive the error.

Its not like Stukov's story doesn't have anywhere to go. Despite how little screen time he actually got in Brood War, he firmly established himself as a complicated character. There's a certain question of where his loyalties would lie if he got involved. Despite being 'cured' of his infestation by Raynor, he obviously didn't stick around. He is a UED patriot, after all, and he knows Raynor best as an enemy. Still, he'd have a rather vested interest in saving the galaxy from the threat of the Hybrids, Earth being a part of the galaxy. Still, I doubt he'd be sympathetic to Kerrigan, having been murdered by the man who was supposedly her lackey (Duran).

And, of course, there are the inevitable running gags about his being dead.