Critics on WOL's Plot

[Louis]

Not a threat? Jim had the advantage most of the time. The laser drill, the Zerg attacking their front lines, the supernova some help from the dominion. It was luck.

My point stands. The Tal'Darim serve as nothing but another opponent to fight in the context of WoL.

And there is nothing wrong with this. The things they were guarding has some interesting implications if you ask Hanson about them (check the lore thread about the artifacts), and the missions were fun. The Tal'darim could have been much more, but I don't regret them.

[RussianSpy27]

lol no just no. That's like saying that the UED shouldn't have been in the BW Protoss campaign because all they did was give us some terran vs protoss. Which is a valid point.

"The campaign will focus on Zeratul as its main character.[7]

The protoss campaign will be based on diplomacy as the protoss factions splinter.[8] The player will work with different protoss tribes[9] and sects, helping leaders of some sects which will anger others.[10] Using units from one side may preclude using units from the other side[8] and alienating one or another sect may cut the player off from part of the campaign.[10] The ultimate goal of the campaign is to unite the various tribes into a viable, unified force that can ensure the protoss' survival.[11] "

From the wiki.

WoL helped in setting the stage for LotV by showing us that they are conflicting with the Dark Templar, so the worst you can objectively say is that their role in WoL dragged on longer than neccesary. It was not an excuse for missions, not if Blizzard intends to do something with them when the expansion comes around. Besides, simply saying that the Tal'Darim were a waste of space doesn't automatically make them bad. Several ME2 characters and the UED of BW were kind of pointless but they were still likable enough.

I wonder if Blizzard employees played any of the Campaign Creations' classic campaigns, such as the "War of the Tribes" that was amazing and intended to be a BW sequel...but anyway,

How can you compare UED to Taldarim? The Taldarim had one voice devout of personality during the missions and the UED was what half of BW was based on. They could have been introduced better, there were problems with logic of them knowing so much info, etc, but the UED was flowing with personality and foundation from its generals, as introduced in the opening cinematic. (As a side note, I'd take the two 1999 BW cinematics for their content over all of the WOL's graphically enhanced ones combined. )

[TheEconomist]

I have no further inclination to read up on them because it can only solidify how poorly implemented they were.

It is FAR more likely that you would have a better appreciation for them. The game itself almost seems to assume you had read the book.

[pure.Wasted]

It is FAR more likely that you would have a better appreciation for them. The game itself almost seems to assume you had read the book.

Can't say I agree. The Dark Templar saga obviously goes into more detail about the Tal'darim, but it isn't really anything of worth. They're really bad guys serving a pure evil overlord. The only way to reason with them is to wean them off their Evil Drugs, Remember Kids, Drugs Aren't Cool, at which point they become practically Lawful Good, because 'Tal'darim' isn't an affiliation, it's a state of being. (drugs>evil)

It's really not much of an improvement over WOL.

[Turalyon]

Thanks for the low-down, Wasted.

It is FAR more likely that you would have a better appreciation for them. The game itself almost seems to assume you had read the book.

That may be so, but I fail to see how relevant that is compared to their portrayal in the game. Fine, they have a reason for existing at all but in the game, they're just your average generic villain to plow through with no thought or consequence.

Just because they're name-checked from some previous lore doesn't make it any less meaningless. They could have been easily replaced with another opponent - Terran or Zerg even - and you'd be none the wiser. It still doesn't shake the notion that their inclusion is somehow redundant.

[Gradius]

I didn't really have a finer appreciation for the Tal'Darim after reading DT: Saga because they don't really have anything to do with one another.

Also, on the topic of extended fiction, I have to quote a quote Nicol once provided:

"You don't get credit for stuff you don't put in the movie because... now try to follow this, because it's a pretty big leap... you didn't put it in the movie. I shouldn't have to wait months and watch all your deleted scenes to say, 'Oh, this finally makes sense,' or pore through some non-canon books to say, 'Oh, so this isn't a pile of nonsensical horseshit afterall." - SFDebris Star Trek Generations Review

[RussianSpy27]

This is not very relevant to Taldarim et al, so I don't want to rudely change the topic, but it has to do with the thread's title: The locked wikipedia WOL entry (that's moderated and edited only by users with special permission) edited their portion of the Reception section focusing on the story of the game to make it balanced. Specifically, they added Eurogamer's quote on the plot.

Not that it would ever make Blizzard take any further notice that the universally acclaimed game has this one particular weakness, but just throwing it out there for anyone who visited that wikipedia entry before (hey we are SC geeks here who note all details after all! :P ).

[Hamshank]

The story utterly failed for its expectations and would have fit a "C" game, not something critically acclaimed. Fire the team, it was totally pathetic. No idea what they were thinking.

Possibly half way they were like fuck we can't do this all in one game, let's take this bad story and draw it out over 3, that way at least we can finish it.

[pure.Wasted]

I literally craped my pants the first time I saw that cinematic... I played the game till I felt asleep in front of the computer... And I played multiplayer till i memorized every single shortkey, quote and map.

SC2? Not even close to that feeling.

Huh. They really went out of their way to make that Battlecruiser look scary, didn't they? My speakers are out at the moment, so I was watching that cinematic without sound. Usually that would be enough to de-scarify anything, but that shot of the Marine looking up at the sky, combined with the search-lights roving across the planet's surface... damn.

I've got absolutely nothing against Metzen admitting that he'd have Raynor wearing a cowboy hat if he could get away with it... a character is a character, it doesn't matter what genre you stick him in. Cowboys exist in real life, and real life is a pretty dark and grim universe. That said -- and I was talking to Gradius about this just the other day -- it's so, so important to make sure you don't lose perspective. I think Blizzard did that a little by focusing the story so tightly around Raynor for so long.

To cowboy Raynor, Battlecruisers aren't scary. He lives in one. The Hyperion is like his trusty stallion. To cowboy Raynor, Protoss aren't mysterious. His best friend was one. It's hard to be impressed by Protoss when Jim's first reaction is, "Howdy, fellas?"

SC1 managed to convey who Raynor was without sacrificing all those other things -- the mystique of the Protoss, the terror of the Zerg, the darkness of the entire universe at large. I'd never go as far as to say I didn't enjoy WOL's cinematics, because that would be very, very far from the truth. But I do wonder whether Blizzard will take advantage of the perspective shifts offered by HOTS and LOTV to show that the SC universe is quite different from what we saw of it through Raynor's eyes.

edit: to go back to the BW intro cinematic for just a moment, the music (which I temporarily can't hear) is a good example of perspective dissonance. In SC1, the operatic song was used to convey a sense of tragedy and scale. In SC2, it's re-tooled to serve as a thematic motif for the Mengsk dynasty. Now, as happy as I am that it made it into the game in any form, especially an updated version, I can't help but notice that it's been castrated. It's like using the Batmobile to get your kids to school on time. Well, sure it'll work, and it'll work better than most things, but how much is that saying, really?

It's not a perfect example, since this "mis-use" can't really be directly attributed to Raynor's cowboy-ish ways. But it does speak to a sense of grandiose scale that I think has been largely missing.

[Eligor]

I always thought the little operatic theme from the Brood War intro to belong specifically to that moment, with the Latin and French lyrics echoing the very European identity of Stukov and Dugalle. It's also both a tragic and an ironic moment since the French chorus at the end is singing about a victorious arrival of soldiers ushering in a bright future while real soldiers down below are getting torn by the Zerg with no help incoming. Too special a piece of music to recycle lightly, in short.

Putting it into the Kerrigan cinematic was misguided and redundant, since Kerrigan's betrayal is a matter of much more personal scale. What they COULD have done is have some other instrument such as a violin or cello VERY faintly play the female singer's vocal melody with a heavier and more percussive rearranged intrumental accompaniment and perhaps even in a different key.

But then, Blizzard seems to have forgotten the meaning of "subtlety" long ago by now.