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Thread: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

  1. #1
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Anyone have some replays of good builds to counter Marine/Banshee?



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  2. #2
    Thumper's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Ive had problem going against this before and I really dont know what the best counter for it is TBH. You need to make that robo bay for the observer but the robo bay will be useless against a timed marine/banshee rush. They will likely have a raven as well which makes stalker attack useless.

    I think you may have to go phoenix/zealot/sentry in this situation. But you have to get your stargate up ASAP when you realize that he is doing a marine/banshee push.

    So if anybody in diamond has experience with this, Id also like to know the best way to deal with this attack.

  3. #3
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    The first step is being able to scout it. If you see that 4-5 minutes into the game he is pure marine and bunkered in when you poke at his ramp, it should set off warning klaxons in your head. It means either a banshee rush or that damned thor/marine/scv push at 9 minutes.

    Against a banshee rush you need to:
    1) build more than one observer.
    2) build a stargate as early as possible. phoenix really are the best counter.
    3) find the time to do a push with a range-upgraded colossus so that you can smash his bunkers from a safe distance. When you're being harassed it's very difficult to find the time for this.

    My style of play (fast expanding) is particularly vulnerable to Banshees because he has so many spots to harass. So if you like to stick to one-base, then I recommend you do it when you scout banshees.

  4. #4
    spychi's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Gradius is right, early scout as always is vital to see it comin'
    pure marines means only one thing either terran is dumb enough to go pure marines with STs or we have a Banshee strat or we have a that lame easy to defend thor push
    if he is going for the banshee as the thread follows than you should:
    make 2 gate zealots>cyb core>stargate>robo
    (if you see that he is making a raven, start making more obs as he will make vikings to snipe your observers)
    note after you have at least two phoenixes and he is still making banshees, make another stargate and make meanwhile if you can an exp, it's vital as you need 4 gate stalkers to catch from ground vikings (blink is also good)

    I have this one replay that is the best example, after I get home I will post
    I also have few other ones less viable as I recall but also show how you force a Terran to switch with Marauders which you can use to your advantage, because as you already might have a second stargate you can make void rays 4 of them is enough (with the right micro) to repeal any kind of marine use, even with stim

    try to have a dark shrine or templar archives, I like to have it always ready, don't make colossi as it's a fail tech when he has a startport, HT's with feedback just freaking own banshees
    if you choose DT's, snipe his gas and make as much damage to his eco as you can
    I dunno anything other than marauders+ghost+rines is easy to counter

    people say that I have a sexy composition of units, at least from what I heard, I like to play the unusuall way and it's almost always worth it
    random strats are the best, you don't stick to one play of either to push or not to push, that might be the reason why I am high in ranks


    this is the less viable one, I can't seem to find the best play
    http://sclegacy.com/forums/attachmen...0&d=1288268726

    http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6377&page=2
    check this thread as well
    Last edited by spychi; 11-30-2010 at 12:03 PM.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    I agree that early scouting is key, but I'm sure you know how difficult it is to scout terran. I'll respectfully disagree with spychi on some of the points though. Pure mass marines doesn't = noobie... in fact, its surprisingly effective once they have a sizeable number regardless of how many gateway units you have as long as your tier 3 isn't out. Even if they can't move in to take you out due to good sentry placement, you are effectively stuck in your base until tier 3 when either templer or colossi are out, allowing terran to macro like crazy or just tech to tanks and keep the lock in. Scouting this can be a problem as all you'll see are maybe 1-2 rax with a some marrines. You might think they are teching, but they could well have 2 more rax behind, and the next moment, you'll have mass rines, scvs +/- bunkers in your base.

    Robo builds are unfortunately almost always a must regardless of what you scout. Marine/Marauder - Immortals are a life saver. Mass marines MAY mean tech.... in which case obs for banshees and immortals again for thors. If pure mass marines, you best be a micro god with your sentries (FF and gaurdian) and have a ton of zealots out..... use your robo to tech as quickly as you reasonably can to colossi to break the lock in. I much prefer templer as spychi mentioned, but they just take too long to come out... by then the terran would have multiple expansions. The 1st 2 colossi can be crucial in breaking out and securing your expo.... but the moment your colossi have been spotted, tech as hard as you can towards templer, or mass so many colossi you'll kill his army in 5-10s before the colossi all die, for you can bet your bottom dollar you'll be seeing vikings real soon. You can skip the colossi straight to templer if you aren't locked in and can expand with mass gateway units and robo support (immortals/obs). If you see ghosts.... just curl up in a corner and cry.

    Regarding DTs, I'm not a fan.... its next to impossible to surprise a terran, especially if they already have a 2nd orbital command. I use DTs more for taking out newly established expos, and if they survive, I either patrol them for invisible scouting/killing the occasional expanding SCV, or morph them to archons for tanking (note - really expensive tank).

  6. #6
    Thumper's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    The first step is being able to scout it. If you see that 4-5 minutes into the game he is pure marine and bunkered in when you poke at his ramp, it should set off warning klaxons in your head. It means either a banshee rush or that damned thor/marine/scv push at 9 minutes.

    Against a banshee rush you need to:
    1) build more than one observer.
    2) build a stargate as early as possible. phoenix really are the best counter.
    3) find the time to do a push with a range-upgraded colossus so that you can smash his bunkers from a safe distance. When you're being harassed it's very difficult to find the time for this.

    My style of play (fast expanding) is particularly vulnerable to Banshees because he has so many spots to harass. So if you like to stick to one-base, then I recommend you do it when you scout banshees.
    Or do a 4 gate timing push. 4 gate is never used against terran but if he is teching, he shouldnt be able to stop your 4 gate if you focus down his bunker.

    Ive only encountered this build once though. I see thor/marine/scv pushes more often.

  7. #7
    spychi's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Quote Originally Posted by masakari View Post

    Regarding DTs, I'm not a fan.... its next to impossible to surprise a terran, especially if they already have a 2nd orbital command. I use DTs more for taking out newly established expos, and if they survive, I either patrol them for invisible scouting/killing the occasional expanding SCV, or morph them to archons for tanking (note - really expensive tank).
    hidden pylon and dark shrine FTW!

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  8. #8
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Quote Originally Posted by spychi View Post
    try to have a dark shrine or templar archives, I like to have it always ready, don't make colossi as it's a fail tech when he has a startport, HT's with feedback just freaking own banshees
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Or do a 4 gate timing push. 4 gate is never used against terran but if he is teching, he shouldnt be able to stop your 4 gate if you focus down his bunker.
    The more effective Banshee builds I've seen put down a Planetary Fortress at their nat so that most regular pushes will fail, that's why I like Colossi. He shouldn't be able to make too many Vikings when you come knocking after investing in Banshees + cloak.

  9. #9
    Thumper's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    The more effective Banshee builds I've seen put down a Planetary Fortress at their nat so that most regular pushes will fail, that's why I like Colossi. He shouldn't be able to make too many Vikings when you come knocking after investing in Banshees + cloak.
    4 Gate should be timed waaaaay before your opponent gets an expo especially if they are teching to banshees for a banshee/marine/raven push. They will not throw up their expo before their push. But yes colossi works great in this situation IF you can survive the push first.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Protoss strategies against Marine/Banshee builds

    Quote Originally Posted by spychi View Post
    hidden pylon and dark shrine FTW!
    I habitually go DT vs Terran, and it fucks them up pretty bad even with 2 oc's. I send in the first 2 the moment his army moves out, then use 1-2 mixed into my army - more if he turns his army back to deal with the 2 dts. I face that first push at my ramp and kill it with FF/DT/Stalker/Sentry.

    Then I immediately expo and research charge. Soon I add 2 gates and 1 forge. In most cases, The T is soo paranoid now that he stays in his base till he gets a raven, or has 2+ scans saved up. By then I have enough zealots and DT to kill his army complemented by FF and my original group of stalkers and a few more added.

    Follow up tech? Templar Archives and Psi storm. And a Robo with immortals if he gets tanks, otherwise purely for observers and 1 immortal to add its dps to my army. Good obs positions enables me to set up effective flanks that kill his army whenever he tries to move out.

    The build is a lil risky on close air positions as the T can 2 port banshee before you get detection. Otherwise, you can pretty much scout the banshee route way before by scouting his front and ensuring there is no fast cc. If there is, there wont be cloaked banshees (at that point).

    Typically though, you'd want to 2 gate robo to deal with Banshee rushing harass into reactored rine/banshee pushes (add 3rd and 4th gate).

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