Retconning Weakens Starcraft 2 Story

[phazonjunkie]

SC3?

Kerrigan knows where earth is and I wouldn't be surprised if other zerg/hybrids didn't know by now.

No she doesn't actually. Or at least there's been no indication that she does. She might have a general idea, but that doesn't cut it when your dealing with tens of thousands of light lears and 100 billion possibiliies; you need precise coordinates.

[pure.Wasted]

No she doesn't actually. Or at least there's been no indication that she does. She might have a general idea, but that doesn't cut it when your dealing with tens of thousands of light lears and 100 billion possibiliies; you need precise coordinates.

During the entirety of the events in Brood War she didn't have a single opportunity to take over (read: as opposed to BLOWING THE FUCK OUT OF) some UED structure, or capture some UED personnel, who would know this location?

That sounds a little far-fetched.

[Louis]

During the entirety of the events in Brood War she didn't have a single opportunity to take over (read: as opposed to BLOWING THE FUCK OUT OF) some UED structure, or capture some UED personnel, who would know this location?

That sounds a little far-fetched.

Why do you think DuGalle comitted suicide?

[pure.Wasted]

Why do you think DuGalle comitted suicide?

Because he realized he was an idiot and is responsible for A) the death of his best friend, B) the deaths of countless people at his command, and C) the potential deaths of everyone on Earth?

Is C) what you were trying to get at? I suppose "she knows the location of our planet" would be a pretty legit reason for offing oneself, should oneself consider she a horrendous enough threat.

[Kimera757]

Picture DuGalle's wife Helena, with a tear on her cheek, running to the President of the UED with a copy of her husband's light speed email as the only piece of evidence that surfaced after no one came back from the fleet. This in turn makes the UED government seriously fear the aliens and (not just for propaganda) send a huge retaliatory force back into the C.Sector.

That's crazy talk. You might as well refight the Vietnam War. The UED got beat; now they have to buck up. If they're going to fight a war again, they might not want to spend "months" studying the enemy. They would need years. Which would put them outside of StarCraft II.

Albert Einstein (alleged): “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

The UED has no element of surprise, possibly no spies in the K-Sector, no Psi Disruptor (the closest thing is that piddly, greatly inferior version developed by Raynor's Rangers which only slows zerg in an area of effect), they lost their most-decorated four-star admiral... how could they possibly expect to do better a second time?

Moreover, if we look at "In Utter Darkness" mission. Zeratul states that Terrans are no more and Protoss are the only ones left to fight the Hybrids. If the hybrids came to anhielate the whole galaxy, wouldn't the UED be involved too? Duran, BTW, knew to stick to the UED right away in BW in order to further his plans.

1) Terrans might only refer to K-Sector terrans. (Uprising and the Iron Fist suggest this, but other sources might disagree.)
2) The UED could be caught by surprise.
3) Who in the K-Sector even knows how to communicate with the UED?
4) Defeating the UED probably had nothing to do with Duran's plans, but with Kerrigan's. Duran was posing as her servant; if she gives him orders, he has to follow them. He can't tell her "no, my mysterious benefactor said no".

1) Kerrigan ... becomes responsible for death of multitudes when the Khalis and Uraj were activated and everything not within the Temple burned.

There's no evidence of this at all. Nowhere were we told that a single protoss was killed by the temple. Not in Story So Far, not in the Dark Templar Saga, nowhere. Furthermore the temple had to be activated in order to save the protoss from Daggoth's forces. Hell, she even helped them get the crystals needed to activate the temple. (Okay, so killing Daggoth's forces helped her, but it's more important to say that it helped her as well.) She's already responsible for killing billions of people. You don't need to stack on anymore.

During the entirety of the events in Brood War she didn't have a single opportunity to take over (read: as opposed to BLOWING THE FUCK OUT OF) some UED structure, or capture some UED personnel, who would know this location?

That sounds a little far-fetched.

The Overmind absorbed many xel'naga and still didn't know where Aiur was, except for a vague direction.

I doubt there was any UED human, not even Stukov, who would have the coordinates in their head. That kind of complicated info is stored in databases. Kerrigan would need to mind control a navigation specialist aboard a battlecruiser to get that kind of info. I don't think she had the chance. She was more interested in blowing stuff up. I also doubt Kerrigan had any interest in going after Earth. Even if she wanted to, being ticked off and all, her desire to stick it to Mengsk and her premonition at the end of Brood War put a stop to that.

Ironically, the UED's attack made them less safe. I doubt Kerrigan gave one whit about Earth until the UED showed up.

[RussianSpy27]

That's crazy talk. You might as well refight the Vietnam War. The UED got beat; now they have to buck up. If they're going to fight a war again, they might not want to spend "months" studying the enemy. They would need years. Which would put them outside of StarCraft II.

Albert Einstein (alleged): “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

The UED has no element of surprise, possibly no spies in the K-Sector, no Psi Disruptor (the closest thing is that piddly, greatly inferior version developed by Raynor's Rangers which only slows zerg in an area of effect), they lost their most-decorated four-star admiral... how could they possibly expect to do better a second time?
============

1) Terrans might only refer to K-Sector terrans. (Uprising and the Iron Fist suggest this, but other sources might disagree.)
2) The UED could be caught by surprise.
3) Who in the K-Sector even knows how to communicate with the UED?
4) Defeating the UED probably had nothing to do with Duran's plans, but with Kerrigan's. Duran was posing as her servant; if she gives him orders, he has to follow them. He can't tell her "no, my mysterious benefactor said no".


There's no evidence of this at all. Nowhere were we told that a single protoss was killed by the temple. Not in Story So Far, not in the Dark Templar Saga, nowhere. Furthermore the temple had to be activated in order to save the protoss from Daggoth's forces. Hell, she even helped them get the crystals needed to activate the temple. (Okay, so killing Daggoth's forces helped her, but it's more important to say that it helped her as well.) She's already responsible for killing billions of people. You don't need to stack on anymore.



The Overmind absorbed many xel'naga and still didn't know where Aiur was, except for a vague direction.

I doubt there was any UED human, not even Stukov, who would have the coordinates in their head. That kind of complicated info is stored in databases. Kerrigan would need to mind control a navigation specialist aboard a battlecruiser to get that kind of info. I don't think she had the chance. She was more interested in blowing stuff up. I also doubt Kerrigan had any interest in going after Earth. Even if she wanted to, being ticked off and all, her desire to stick it to Mengsk and her premonition at the end of Brood War put a stop to that.

Ironically, the UED's attack made them less safe. I doubt Kerrigan gave one whit about Earth until the UED showed up.

A. UED's core platform exists on the ideology of exterminating the alien threat. It's a totalitarian government that is not based on religion, but on ideology of human supremacy. Without an ideology and its practical application, the State loses its foundation and hence control over the planet. Nazi ideology was racial supremacy, Soviet ideology was battle with the West and Capitalism. Constant arms race and propaganda was needed to keep the populace's faith in the system. Vietnam was example does not fit here. America was not afraid of Vietnam. We were afraid of the spread of Communism to yet one more country. America was afraid of the USSR and was involved in constant verge of war AKA Cold War Arms Race. Here, if Vietnam is the K-Sector then USSR is Zerg and Protoss, except that cold war is not feasible in the Starcraft universe.

B. UED sent an expeditionary force (not a huge army) that relied on acquiring local equipment, such as Battle Cruisers to wage the war against Dominion. Metzen said that the UED has "big guns" at home that they didn't bring the first time around http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/UED#Technology . You make a good point about taking time to study the enemy, but four years should be enough, especially considering they have studied the aliens in detail prior to BW.

C. Good point about Duran seemingly following Kerrigan's orders during the UED invasion, but turning back to the Utter Darkness Mission, the epic scope of that mission would naturally suggest than entire universe is in peril, including Earth Terrans.

D. Ok about the crystals, though if it was not for her, it's unknown whether the Protoss would have used the destructive power of the crystals on their entire planet. She led them to the crystals after brainwashing the Matriarch. My point here was to remind everyone about how significant Brood War was.

E. Have you ever thought about the fact that if Kerrigan brainwashed the Matriarch by the time Zeratul and co arrived from Aiur, Kerrigan must have already, on her own initiative found Shakuras - the dark homeworld of the DT that wasn't exactly in every Protoss' high school textbook. Recall - BW Mission 1

Zeratul: Now, Executor, I know
of a place where we can find
solace. It is Shakuras, the secret
homeworld of my people the Dark
Templar.

Finding Earth, where all Terrans came from, would probably not be a harder task.

[Kimera757]

A. UED's core platform exists on the ideology of exterminating the alien threat. It's a totalitarian government that is not based on religion, but on ideology of human supremacy. Without an ideology and its practical application, the State loses its foundation and hence control over the planet. Nazi ideology was racial supremacy, Soviet ideology was battle with the West and Capitalism. Constant arms race and propaganda was needed to keep the populace's faith in the system. Vietnam was example does not fit here. America was not afraid of Vietnam. We were afraid of the spread of Communism to yet one more country. America was afraid of the USSR and was involved in constant verge of war AKA Cold War Arms Race. Here, if Vietnam is the K-Sector then USSR is Zerg and Protoss, except that cold war is not feasible in the Starcraft universe.

I disagree. The UED is new. The UPL was a totalitarian government based on human supremacy which actually collapsed upon seeing superior protoss forces burning terran worlds.

The UED did form with the intent of defeating the alien "threat", but as DuGalle discovered, said threat was too much for them to handle. Even the Dominion was beating him by the end of things. (Not without help, but in his own words the colonies weren't tameable.)

The UED has even worse things going for it than last time. Instead of wasting time attacking the Dominion, they could ally with Mengsk this time... except there's no way in hell Mengsk or any Dominion citizen would trust them, much less welcome them, after they were conquered last time.

China was devoted to spreading communism a while back. Not too long before Vietnam China tried to spread communism to the Philippines by sponsoring guerrilla warfare. They failed miserably. They didn't try again. The US believed this meant communists were weak and could be easily beaten. Boy were they wrong! It happened eventually, after a long slow process of self-inflicted communist economic and eventual political damage, plus the disastrous invasion of the Graveyard of Empires (Afghanistan). It did take the USSR ten years to learn their lesson there; only two years after finally pulling out, the USSR fell apart.

The USSR tried to sponsor communism throughout Latin America. They were only really successful in Cuba. They tried several times and then gave up. Left-wing terrorist movements like the FARC have to operate on their own (selling drugs gives them the money they want).

If a nation loses big time, they give up... and make excuses.

B. UED sent an expeditionary force (not a huge army) that relied on acquiring local equipment, such as Battle Cruisers to wage the war against Dominion. Metzen said that the UED has "big guns" at home that they didn't bring the first time around http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/UED#Technology .

True to all that, but I personally don't believe sending in a bigger force would make up for the advantages the UED lost. Furthermore, sending in a smaller force to make some sort of diplomatic contact with, say, the Kel-Morian Combine (they didn't have a bad relationship with them) would be a much smarter plan.

(Otherwise, to keep bringing up real-life examples, the US is flailing in Afghanistan right now due to not understanding a heck of a lot of Afghan culture. The warlord says "there's al-Qaeda and Taliban over there; bomb 'em!" and the US does it. Turns out those guys were forces belonging to rival warlords. This happens all the time. The US forces there probably outnumber the Taliban... it's not helping. Now of course the UED could ignore the lessons of history, but that means they're insane.)

You make a good point about taking time to study the enemy, but four years should be enough, especially considering they have studied the aliens in detail prior to BW.

There's been no evidence, though, that the UED has been able to study their opponents up close. Maybe they can spy on their enemies at range like before, but there's only so much info you can gain without boots on the ground or being able to talk to people there. We have no evidence the UED ever knew where Shakuras was (which would make spying on the protoss more than a little difficult).

D. Ok about the crystals, though if it was not for her, it's unknown whether the Protoss would have used the destructive power of the crystals on their entire planet. She led them to the crystals after brainwashing the Matriarch. My point here was to remind everyone about how significant Brood War was.

I'm not saying it's not significant, but I have to disagree that using the crystals was even a bad thing. The protoss were in such trouble (due to Daggoth's invasion) they had to use them. Even arrogant Artanis was scared. If it wasn't for Kerrigan helping the protoss on Char (to get the Khalis), the protoss might have lost Shakuras as a base, too.

The only downside is that Kerrigan was aided as well, but if I had to choose between certain short-term destruction and possible long-term destruction, I'll go with the latter.

The only thing a new player to the game needs to know is that Kerrigan was abandoned by Mengsk and took over the Swarm after the Overmind died. I just can't see how discussing the prophecy along with Daggoth and the Second Overmind would make anything clearer to anyone who isn't a lore nut like us.

E. Have you ever thought about the fact that if Kerrigan brainwashed the Matriarch by the time Zeratul and co arrived from Aiur, Kerrigan must have already, on her own initiative found Shakuras - the dark homeworld of the DT that wasn't exactly in every Protoss' high school textbook.

Yes. I suspect the Overmind learned of its location from Zeratul. (StarCraft I says they learned each others' secrets, although Zeratul clearly didn't learn about the Dark Voice until Tassadar showed him that vision.)

Finding Earth, where all Terrans came from, would probably not be a harder task.

I very much doubt that. And even if Kerrigan knew where Earth was, what is she going to do about it? Her concerns are more local. If she goes to Earth, it's to ask them to fight the hybrids, nothing more. (And Mengsk's diplomats would, for obvious reasons, do a better job at this.)

[Twilice]

Zeratul: Now, Executor, I know
of a place where we can find
solace. It is Shakuras, the secret
homeworld of my people the Dark
Templar.

Finding Earth, where all Terrans came from, would probably not be a harder task.

Lol, and after reading this. How can you argue (in general) how sc1 got a more fluid and better storytelling?

[RussianSpy27]

Twilice, Kimera's response about Kerrigan finding out Shakuras' location from the Overmind's link with Zeratul is a perfectly fine explanation as far as location is concerned. He is correct.

SC/BW was had a much better plot for reasons of character development, much more powerful dialogue, suspense and intrigue moments, epic feel and coherence.

A newb playing the Campaign has no freaken clue what in the universe is flying. We see some ex-convict re-connecting with an old friend who has gone alcoholic because a dictator betrayed his girl who is now a monster. It's all very nice but what's that all about? Who is the weird alien who discovered some prophecy who had a fight with the lady monster on heels? Hybrids? What??? What the writers did, was the following: A) Make the story epic-less for a newb. B) Make the story seemingly coherent for someone who played SC, but retcon BW (I don't just mean UED, I mean character development as well for Kerrigan and Raynor) and hence make the story feel double-out of place.

==================

Kimera, I agree that governments abandon failed missions. Yet, here, UED is actually afraid of the alien threat. It's not merely an imperialistic mission that they undertook and then decided to abandon, but a move of a pre-emptive survival strike. Whether the higher-ups genuinely believed so or not, that was the official propaganda, so we can take it at face-value. You're right about the point that a full-fledged attack may not be the best choice. I even recalled of a good historical example to back your reasoning with:

After the Roman Empire, under General Marcus Crassus invaded the Parthians, whom the Romans were at relative harmony with, the lack of knowledge of local lands and people led to a shameful defeat for the Romans that ended with the dead of Crassus. Despite the defeat, Romans later retaliated under Mark Anthony with a second invasion, where he brought a huge army along, but for the same reasons you bring up, he was defeated as well. (Rome would have retaliated with a better chance of success, had brilliant Caesar been alive, as he had strong plans in doing so, but alas he was dead). That was an example of a situation when Rome did not feel especially threatened.

In the case of the UED, they have many more reasons to be threatened by the mysteriously powerful double-alien force that exterminated its expedition - even if they may not want to pull a Mark Anthony and engage in a full-sledged attack and be involved in more subtle ways.

Yet, for UED to not be involved in any way, to disappear and essentially be forgotten in the sequel to BW would be to undermine and retcon the entire awesome story. If we think about it, everything in BW, everything (except the story of how Protoss survived by relocating to Shakuras) had to do with the UED in one way or another.

BW writers did a great move by connecting the history of the Colonized Terrans by bringing in a whole new player - the UED into the grand scheme of things. To me, the note about none of the ships making it back was more of a notion that to Earth, the details of the defeat remained shrouded with mystery, but it certainly did not signal lack of their resurgence in SC2.

So what would I have done? I would have included the abbreviated BW story, in its entirety, in the installation voice (without details of the second overmind perhaps, but certainly the general overview about the UED and Zeratul's discovery - to explain what the whole deal with hybrids is about).

[Louis]

Retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon[1]) refers to the deliberate alteration of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction

Kerrigan and Jims character was not retconned by any definition. He felt bad about what happened, that he could have prevented it, and probably felt like he should have known better than to trust her to not attack Fenix and the protoss in BW because of the whole infestation thing. Valarian offers a chance for redemption and Jim took it.