The Cylons

[BusinessMonkey]

[(sorry for being long and if i sound like i'm bitching or dunno..something )]

Agreed.

@BusinessMonkey - simply too much kill kill kill in your version mate...

a) we already had kerrigan as absolute winner in BW (remember the final speech, the screens blackening...sounding familiar?)
b) the explaining why zerg were dormant and all that would actually be better put in heart than wings in my opinion
c) you actually had that in wol, the fight against arty
d) what, you want another sons of korhal? (again my solo opinion) - you're just replaying sc with the stuff you're saying - a small rebel band gets big and smashes the big bad guys

plus - it all actually happened -> raynor went after kerrigan and '''let go'' of arty for a while...

or simply put:
1) disagree - just don't make him sound like a pussy and change the damn dialogue plus kick tassy out
2) the fuck you plan on doing in heart then? zerg = heart, terrans = wings, they have nothing to explain in the first part
3) erm, that actually happened... and he ''got'' a huge force (junior remember )
4) NO -> lame,stupid,pointless, plus a total copy of bw ending, and i believe i read that a lot of people here have agreed that is kinda sucked a bit
5) ending of the first installment of SC2

please note that its all my opinion on this, and what i believe i remember correctly about the seen and heard

I can see how the critic is valid in the way that it'd be a lot like SC1, but I am also trying to make sc2 feel more like sc1, especially due to the feeling of them being two different universes. In sc1 cinematics people get their heads blown up in closeups, in sc2 it's bulky toys pushing eachother around.
Sorry derail here...

1) Anyhoo storywise I can't see why Raynor can't die. Eligor pointed out well that he could die by sacrificing himself instead which would allow for a more motivated meaning for Kerrigan to change in HotS. No matter what, losing Raynor would create a "cliffhanger" to what untold bad things (because we want basic and easy to understand conflics in stories more than meaningless details of the likes SC2 delivered) will happen in the next installment.
2) As for a Zerg demo, I really can't see what the problem is. Whatever the demo, being a prologue campaign won't have much to do with HotS since Kerrigan has been changed. (Yes I've relunctantly accepted that fact by now). Playing SC2 the arrival of the zerg just feels so unmotivated. "Why do they suddenly come?" is never during the campaign as an exciting question to try and answer as "Why the hell haven't they done squat for 4 years?". Remember this is the game, if we're supposed to go out and buy books to be able to GUESS why, then why doesn't Blizz expect new players to try SC1 for lore? It's just retarded that we're fed with these superficial circumstances in the game.
3)Yes that is the same as WoL, but WoL doesn't really tell that story very well. We start out against Mengsk, but there's very vague motivation for NOT keeping the focus on that, which Raynor clearly doesn't. During the campaign there is little understanding of where and how much progress of this has been made, especially thanks to the (on both sides) one-sided, and overly charicatured journalists which were supposed to give in-depth info on precisely this aspect of the game. It's a mish-mash of things that just happen but don't follow a typical, but also very exciting storyarch. It's just a storytellingwise "pastiche" of random clichees bunched together with an even bigger cliche holding them together.
In my version there is a focus on Mengsk, and the repetition of him getting away is also a character aspect. He's a weseal and weasels tend to get away no matter how many times they get caught. AND THAT'S A REALISTIC ASPECT RIGHT THERE.
4) When I say the SUPER EPIC FINALE, it tries to point out Raynor dies in some very very cool way, or/and after a very very cool cinematic, in the way that the Warcraft 3 Orc finale was. That's what's Blizz is exceptionaly good at. All that isn't that bad and I think less clicheed than the man holding the girls in his arms ending of WoL...
5) At least we agree there.

[Louis]

3)Yes that is the same as WoL, but WoL doesn't really tell that story very well. We start out against Mengsk, but there's very vague motivation for NOT keeping the focus on that, which Raynor clearly doesn't.

It's funny because you say that WoL is vague and weak because it's not focused enough and then you wish to know more about why they came back than "they came back looking for the artifacts which happen to be all mysterious and powerful and can kind of depower me"

We know why Kerrigan came back, what we don't know is the Moebius shenanigans, and the other uses for the artifact, but starcraft never resolves everything so why start complaining now? Raynor was officially declared to have sided with Hanson and with Tosh and both stories ended with a small blow to Arcturus with the colonists crying to the UNN, and the most dangerous prison in the sector been broken into. I hope that the we see more consequences of the new folsom convicts and the colonists even if we don't see the leaders ever again.

[Zeraszana]

I can see how the critic is valid in the way that it'd be a lot like SC1, but I am also trying to make sc2 feel more like sc1, especially due to the feeling of them being two different universes. In sc1 cinematics people get their heads blown up in closeups, in sc2 it's bulky toys pushing eachother around.
Sorry derail here...

1) Anyhoo storywise I can't see why Raynor can't die. Eligor pointed out well that he could die by sacrificing himself instead which would allow for a more motivated meaning for Kerrigan to change in HotS. No matter what, losing Raynor would create a "cliffhanger" to what untold bad things (because we want basic and easy to understand conflics in stories more than meaningless details of the likes SC2 delivered) will happen in the next installment.
2) As for a Zerg demo, I really can't see what the problem is. Whatever the demo, being a prologue campaign won't have much to do with HotS since Kerrigan has been changed. (Yes I've relunctantly accepted that fact by now). Playing SC2 the arrival of the zerg just feels so unmotivated. "Why do they suddenly come?" is never during the campaign as an exciting question to try and answer as "Why the hell haven't they done squat for 4 years?". Remember this is the game, if we're supposed to go out and buy books to be able to GUESS why, then why doesn't Blizz expect new players to try SC1 for lore? It's just retarded that we're fed with these superficial circumstances in the game.
3)Yes that is the same as WoL, but WoL doesn't really tell that story very well. We start out against Mengsk, but there's very vague motivation for NOT keeping the focus on that, which Raynor clearly doesn't. During the campaign there is little understanding of where and how much progress of this has been made, especially thanks to the (on both sides) one-sided, and overly charicatured journalists which were supposed to give in-depth info on precisely this aspect of the game. It's a mish-mash of things that just happen but don't follow a typical, but also very exciting storyarch. It's just a storytellingwise "pastiche" of random clichees bunched together with an even bigger cliche holding them together.
In my version there is a focus on Mengsk, and the repetition of him getting away is also a character aspect. He's a weseal and weasels tend to get away no matter how many times they get caught. AND THAT'S A REALISTIC ASPECT RIGHT THERE.
4) When I say the SUPER EPIC FINALE, it tries to point out Raynor dies in some very very cool way, or/and after a very very cool cinematic, in the way that the Warcraft 3 Orc finale was. That's what's Blizz is exceptionaly good at. All that isn't that bad and I think less clicheed than the man holding the girls in his arms ending of WoL...
5) At least we agree there.

to sum it up..you want ANOTHER (?!) brave hero who dies in an epic scene sacrificing himself for the benefit of all the others so that they may live and that they may realise that the bad are not bad and can be changed, so that we may (as players) wait again for 10 years for him to be so badly revived that all of us went into shock when seen and be given such a lame and otherwordly fail of a reason to show up and some dumb task? jeah...

as for everything else - jeah, the storytelling was a bit sucky, but i liked the story cuz i obviously bothered reading all the extra stuff and replaying sc and bw to catch all the nuances of the lore and all the other stuff...look, most of the ppl(new players) who played sc2 don't give 2 shits to wonder about this and that and they probably noticed waaaay less errors or crap then anyone on this forum since all the dudes here (and the few dudetes) have quite the knowledge of most of the happenings in the sc UNIVERSE..and 90% of the ppl who actually played sc and bw have bothered themselves to go and snoop around for more info(the hell this forum started for?), so to them, it may make more sense since they know all the reasons behind it (okay most ) and i really wouldn't want to compare the 2, since you can NEVER have a player who plays a sequel but doesn't check out the original knowing even the fraction of what someone who did does

sc2 failed because of this, it tried to introduce the new players to the old stuff we are all already aware of and mash together old and new, it failed because ''we'' who have seen it consider it useless and degrading (don't contradict me, show me one person who didn't roll his/her eyes at zeratul's lines) while the newbies consider it lame since it was put in like a stupid add-on... (tried to end the rant here )

[hyde]

The sad part is this guy actually tries to post original threads.

Uhh on a side note... I need to change my pants.

[Eligor]

to sum it up..you want ANOTHER (?!) brave hero who dies in an epic scene sacrificing himself for the benefit of all the others so that they may live and that they may realise that the bad are not bad and can be changed, so that we may (as players) wait again for 10 years for him to be so badly revived that all of us went into shock when seen and be given such a lame and otherwordly fail of a reason to show up and some dumb task? jeah...

Actually, the way I envision Raynor's death is as quite a commonplace battlefield casualty fighting in defence of something or someone. Forgotten and unsung by nearly everyone, but causing a subtle butterfly effect that ultimately leads to a more hopeful resolution of some great calamity. So his sacrifice may save the world, but by a very long proxy. Most real life heroes are like that, we don't know their names or who they were but somewhere back down along the thread of time we owe them what peace and happiness we have in this life (if not our very existence).

[Zeraszana]

Actually, the way I envision Raynor's death is as quite a commonplace battlefield casualty fighting in defence of something or someone. Forgotten and unsung by nearly everyone, but causing a subtle butterfly effect that ultimately leads to a more hopeful resolution of some great calamity. So his sacrifice may save the world, but by a very long proxy. Most real life heroes are like that, we don't know their names or who they were but somewhere back down along the thread of time we owe them what peace and happiness we have in this life (if not our very existence).

jeah well..except this is blizzard and they tend to kill everyone with a loud bang and then revive them when they see fit...

[mr. peasant]

Are we taking the topic seriously now? In that case, I do have a few things I would have probably done differently (bearing in mind the end point has to be the same since we know not what Blizzard has planned for HotS and LotV):

1. Remove the entire anti-Dominion plotline post-Mar-Sara. As Raynor himself admits, continuing to fight the Dominion in the face of a massive Zerg invasion is idiotic and ultimately self-destructive.
   
2. Reimagine Hanson not as a scientist (one is enough) but more of a femme fatale/southern belle (specifically the 'mauvaise' version), where she is manipulating Raynor to defend her people.
   
3. Drop the whole 'drunk Raynor' subplot. It didn't come across clearly in the game. His judgment wasn't really impaired and he doesn't get into any more trouble than he would have sober; making Horner's comment about having to clean up after Raynor out-of-place and jerkass-ish.

As such, the story would go something along the lines of:

• Following the return of the Zerg, the main campaign will feature Raynor amassing his forces, coordinating the defense of the Fringe Worlds now that the Dominion has pulled out and restoring a semblence of order in the sector. Missions would feature Raynor rescuing/picking up colonists, prevent looting, de-infesting worlds and securing strategic locations (e.g. a shipyard). This would also explain how Raynor manages to amass himself a fleet by the end. The questline ends when he is forced to meet Valerian Mengsk (e.g. 'someone' sabotaging the warp drive to take them to the Prince instead of their intended destination) who offers him a truce.
  
  
• The Artifacts story branch would be an optional questine. To justify the missions, Horner could reason that while 'saving the universe' is all well and good, they would still need cold hard cash to arm people with. As before, Findlay would still represent the Moebius Foundation (secretly backed by Valerian) and the missions would have a TvP, TvZ or TvPvZ theme. During this questline, Raynor discovers that Kerrigan is after the Artifacts as well and that the recent Zerg invasion is simply to cover the fact; causing him to realise just how much of a cold-hearted bitch Kerrigan was to be willing to sacrifce billions of lives (Terran and Zerg) as a distraction.
  
  
• Hanson's missions would feature her repeatedly calling on Raynor's aid to protect her colony from the Zerg virus running rampant around the refugee camps and from mistreatment following the event. Horner/Findlay calls Raynor out for allowing Hanson to manipulate him, commenting that he is doing it to appease his own guilt over the Kerrigan incident on Tarsonis. Depending on player's choice, the questline would end either with Raynor teaching Hanson's people to fend for themselves (giving a sense of accomplishment to the player for actually changing their circumstances) or Raynor being forced to exterminate the colony once the Zerg virus gets out of control; causing Raynor to be charged for genocide by either the Umojans or Kel-Morians and require him to be broken out of prison.
  
  
• Tosh's questline begins with Raynor discovering a string of recent abductions and him catching a group of pirates in the act by the second mission of the questline (at a planet rich with Terrazine). Tosh, who is leading the pirate group, then warns Raynor to mind his own business and stay out of his. It would be revealed that Tosh was specifically abducting psychics. Once tracking Tosh to Avernus, Tosh offers to trade his abductees for a favour. If Raynor is willing to deal, they break Tosh's fellow Spectres out from a heavily fortifed re-education centre (New Folsom?). During this mission, Raynor is able to obtain schematics for Ghost equipment, allowing Raynor to arm the rescued psychics (thereby obtaining Ghost units). At the end, Raynor and Tosh go their separate ways. If Raynor doesn't deal, he attempts a hostage rescue on Avernus. At the end of the mission, Tosh escapes but Raynor manages to capture Spectre PoWs willing to work for Raynor if spared. Either way, the abductees are rescued and Raynor has a deep dislike of Tosh.

I know a lot of these ideas sound rather off-the-wall but I feel they better suit Raynor's personality and the situation post-Mar-Sara. Moreover, it tells a tighter story with side quests that either serve a point or have definite ends.

[Eligor]

jeah well..except this is blizzard and they tend to kill everyone with a loud bang and then revive them when they see fit...

But one is allowed to hope, right?

And anyway, Raynor dying is not a requirement for a good ending, just a very likely outcome of a certain kind of storyline (in fact, the way I imagine the ending of WoL to be, Raynor just might survive it, "might" being the keyword).

[TheEconomist]

You mean the ending of the trilogy?

[DemolitionSquid]

Mengsk should die at Kerrigan's hand, Raynor should die at the hands of the Xel'Naga, and Kerrigan should save everyone but then kill herself over the loss of Raynor. And Zeratul does the epilogue.