Starcraft II Insights

[Triceron]

Not to mention the amount of micro involved to snipe each muta to make the cost effectiveness worth while.

[DemolitionSquid]

Here's my question: If your opponent has Mutas, it means he has a Lair. Which means you should at least have a Factory. So why would someone be building Ghosts when a single Thor could do the job more effectively?

[trace wm]

This whole muta/snipe thing is getting weird... mutas are just ONE target for snipe, they may not be the BEST target, but with snipe+range+bonus to light, a Terran going infantry against Zerg will (in all likelihood) want some ghosts early in the game.


Does snipe need to be researched?

[Nicol Bolas]

Which means you should at least have a Factory. So why would someone be building Ghosts when a single Thor could do the job more effectively?

Because you wanted Ghosts.

Even in SC1, you only teched to a Factory that early if you were going 'Mech or BioMech vs. Zerg. If you're going SK Terran, what was more important was getting your Armory and Engineering Bay up.

[Aldrius]

Not to mention the amount of micro involved to snipe each muta to make the cost effectiveness worth while.

Even taking out a single Muta (at least in SC1) is useful. And that takes 4 clicks.

[Norfindel]

Ok, wait a second... Where was it said that Snipe has 11 range?

[Aldrius]

Ok, wait a second... Where was it said that Snipe has 11 range?

It was assumed by me, and then people repeated it.

It's definitely got more than 6 based on the Terran demo. Which, admittedly is pretty old. Also: it just flat out makes sense.

[SpiderBrigade]

Seriously, I gotta say there's no way to know for sure if Snipe is going to be viable/weak/OP until we get to see it used in lots of games in Beta.

However, I do have a few thoughts, naturally. I think currently the Ghost is the Terran version of the Phoenix. Not in that it's anything like the Phoenix, but people are reacting to it the same way.

I think the Phoenix is supposed to be a useful unit for a particular role "off the shelf," and if you have skills it can be good for other things also. In other words, it's a good anti-air unit, but if you have micro you can use it against ground troops or even for econ harass. But if you don't have the micro, it's just anti-air.

The Ghost is similar in that it's more versatile based on your skill. By default it's designed to be pretty good at shutting down enemy casters - I'll justify this below. But if you just have APM coming out of your ears, you can use ghosts in a pinch to deal with something different, for instance early Mutalisks. That doesn't mean the Ghost is designed to do that, or intended to be the main Terran counter to Mutas, but it can do well if you're good enough.

So I've noticed that people think the Phoenix is too weak because it's ability is designed to make it more versatile rather than being tied directly into what it's good at "by default," and I think the Ghost suffers from this as well.

So why are Ghosts supposedly good against casters, especially with Snipe? Not because it gets a bonus, but because casters tend to be high-value, low-HP, and in somewhat smaller numbers than basic infantry troops. I think this is what the whole stupid "core unit" argument was about, really. So the effort spent sniping does immediate damage to your enemy's viability - his tactic relied on the idea that he would have HT there for Psi Storm, for instance, but you Sniped them.

[Norfindel]

It was assumed by me, and then people repeated it.

It's definitely got more than 6 based on the Terran demo. Which, admittedly is pretty old. Also: it just flat out makes sense.

I don't know if it makes too much sense. Traditionally, you must get close to use abilities, so as to put your caster in danger. Most are pretty short ranged.

[Rated]

I feel snipe's role has a lot to do with how smart cast and a casting delay plays into it. If one ghost has a casting delay then would two ghosts selected (with both 75+ energy) be ably to cast two snipes as quick as you can click the hotkey and target?

If this is the case, or if there is no casting delay whatsoever, (and if they do indeed have decent range with snipe), then I see ghosts being a little like sci vessel balls in tvz, where 10-15 ghosts approach hydras, lings, roaches, lurkers, banelings, whatever, snipe away and retreat with only energy depletion to show for it. Of course they can't retreat easily like the flying vessel, but if they are close to a terran ball it hardly matters.