Harassing with Protoss

[kyr200]

Phoenix harass against Zerg is quite valid and strong. Void Rays seems plausible since the patch.

[Norfindel]

I found Phoenix to be an amusing harass-method. They seem pretty underrated at the moment though.

The problem with the Phoenix, is that for been a dedicated "air superiority fighter", it's not superior to most, if any, air unit in the game, and that good targets for GB are things like Immortals, Siege Tanks, and some worker harass, and that's pretty much all. It also requires huge micro whatever you're trying to do, and are very frail.

[Vrebona]

The problem with the Phoenix, is that for been a dedicated "air superiority fighter", it's not superior to most, if any, air unit in the game, and that good targets for GB are things like Immortals, Siege Tanks, and some worker harass, and that's pretty much all. It also requires huge micro whatever you're trying to do, and are very frail.

I believe Husky's "paper airplane" quote is completely justified. Still, if used right it can throw a lot of people off their games. Though they do need a buff for their fighting purposes instead of just harass purposes.
(Yes, Phoenix works for muta-kiting but what else? )"

[imdrunkontea]

phoenixes actually beat the other AA units of the other races (Viking, Muta) on a cost-for-cost basis, and are much faster to boot. Vikings will get the first shot off, but once the phoenixes catch up it's game over.

[Gradius]

Phoenix lose to Vikings cost-for-cost in my tests - though 1 phoenix can take out 1 viking.

[kyr200]

Trade off cost for cost phoenix might be on the short end but then they have superior fleeing capabilities and shield regeneration. Thus in battle they are quite superior to the other AA units of the other race with the exception of cost which could be made up for with micro.

[Twilice]

If I am protoss and the enemy get vikings I would rather kill the vikings with stalkers.

[Norfindel]

Trade off cost for cost phoenix might be on the short end but then they have superior fleeing capabilities and shield regeneration. Thus in battle they are quite superior to the other AA units of the other race with the exception of cost which could be made up for with micro.

Some units can even overcome it's counters by sheer micro, but the Phoenix needs constant micro to overcome the units it's supposed to counter. Something's not quite right with that.

To begin with, the unit deals twice the damage against Light targets, and there are only two Light air units that can attack it: the Mutalisk, and itself. And even with this bonus against Light, the damage they deal is nothing to call home about. That means that they're very ineffective against Armored targets. And why? What's the uber-powerful characteristic that calls for this unit to have a bad attack against most air units on top of been air-to-air only, and been very frail? It's like a collection of nerfs without pretty much any strenghts at all.

[Blasterion]

Some units can even overcome it's counters by sheer micro, but the Phoenix needs constant micro to overcome the units it's supposed to counter. Something's not quite right with that.

To begin with, the unit deals twice the damage against Light targets, and there are only two Light air units that can attack it: the Mutalisk, and itself. And even with this bonus against Light, the damage they deal is nothing to call home about. That means that they're very ineffective against Armored targets. And why? What's the uber-powerful characteristic that calls for this unit to have a bad attack against most air units on top of been air-to-air only, and been very frail? It's like a collection of nerfs without pretty much any strenghts at all.

one of the reason why I think Protoss is more of a muscle race, they don't have many surgical/covert options other than Warp Prism and Dark Templars. They usually over come opponent thru sheer power of their more or less "elite" units

[spychi]

I am sure that at this cost of 150min/100gas the unit is viable but not at mass numbers (more than 12)
it's not effective against all air units, I would increase it's attack to 7+10vs light
that would be enough to make it even more viable, the vs light dmg should stay as it is but the base dmg should be increased...
oh btw there are ground light units which can be killed pretty easily = workers
...
and here is my crazy idea, bring back it's AtG, increase the cost a little bit and slow it down a little bit...but that is totaly crazy I think, ground units would be fucked pretty much...

anyway, who else is using Phoenixes in PvP on daily basis? i do, i mostly take 3 or 4, it's great in tanking dmg when you are in a almost miror battle Colossi, Stalkers, Zealots, some Sentry's and you have some phoenixes but few less ground forces, it's fun to hunt Colossi with them