Why was Kerrigan on Shakuras? And about Aldaris...

[Louis]

I'm not sure if this belongs in the Broodwar forum, but I was wondering if there is anything in the novels which will make the campaign make sense. I'm really curious to see a better explanation of either of these events than "because the plot demanded it", because that's about all I've got at the moment and I don't like it one bit.

We are told near the end of BW that she had controlled Razagal ages before the events of the BW expansion took place, and from what I saw Kerrigan was very much up to the task of controlling Razagals every action from other worlds while fighting the UED in a battle of wills over the swarm. And Zeratul seemed to know all about where the magic rocks which were needed to energize the plot device tower could be found.

My second major problem with the campaign...

Okay, apart from how weird Aldaris' response of rebelling when he learns of the Razagal/Kerrigan manipulation, what happened to the rest of the insurgents? Did Zeratul and friends kill the rebels to the last refugee? Did Aldaris neglect to inform his soldiers as to the reasons that he had all of a sudden decided to attack the dark templars who the Aiur refugees owed their lives? Why would he not tell anyone?

[Articorse]

Kerrigan hadn't corrupted Raszagal 'ages' before the expansion. In fact, I'm not even sure if she had corrupted her prior to her arrival on Shakuras. But even if she had - there is a pretty simple reason why she would be on Shakuras. Her presence alone would divide the protoss much more sharply than if she was somewhere far away. Her staying with them actually made Zeratul think she might've changed. It made her look vulnerable, even though she really wasn't. Not to mention that she would be in the perfect position to take out some of her enemies - namely Aldaris. He most likely would not have died if she hadn't killed him.

This second part sounds a bit like a nitpick to me. The rest of the insurgents, after their leader had been defeated, were either imprisoned, killed, or decided to switch sides again. After all, Aldaris was killed by Kerrigan, and the whole insurgency was against her. Now that Zeratul and Artanis were going after her, as well, they had no reason to rebel anymore. True, they were probably pissed like hell, but there would be those that can see the pointlessness of continuing to fight amongst themselves instead of the true threat. And there were probably those, that couldn't, and they were most likely imprisoned or killed.

And about the UED, you forget that they arrived later - while Kerrigan was doing her business with the protoss, she still didn't know they were coming, let alone WHY they were coming. Even aside from that, Kerrigan needed the protoss' help to reacquire control over the swarm, so that's all the more reason to be on Shakuras.

I hope that answers your questions.

[Louis]

Perhaps I misplaced the fault of the Razagals corruption in the BW campaign... it might have been alright if the revelation towards the end of BW had been written better. Or if Kerrigan hadn't controlled Razagal at the beginning of the protoss campaign. Or if Razagal was Kerrigans prisoner for the duration of the UED and most of the Zerg campaign all while been slowly corrupted. But that's for the fan fics to take care of I guess...

In fact, I'm not even sure if she had corrupted her prior to her arrival on Shakuras.

I am certain that I remember her saying that Razagal had been corrupted from the start.


Also, the way the whole revelation was revealed near the end of the Zerg campaign seems bad. Zeratul showed no apparant signs that he had ever suspected Razagals condition between the beginning and the end of the UEDs dominance, so apparantly Kerrigan had no problems in keeping control of her. He didn't trust Kerrigan, but he didn't call her out on her plan either, and last we saw Zeratul was with Razagal for the whole campaign. And I'm not sure that it's a good idea to divide the protoss, since she kind of depended on their success against the cerebrates for her plan to succeed.

[Articorse]

I'm not sure what the problem here is. If we assume Raszagal was corrupted from the start, then Zeratul would have no reason to really doubt her decisions and actions, since he hadn't met her in many, many years, if I recall correctly. And it's not true that Zeratul showed no signs of suspicion, since he tells Artanis that she's acting strangely, not like the kind and gentle soul he's always known her to be.

As for the division of the protoss, that was a calculated risk. Sure, she could simply use them for her own ends without sabotaging them, thereby making sure that they would fulfill their role properly. But if she hadn't tried to divide them, they'd be a very big threat. By working with them and undermining them at the same time, she could use them to do what she needed, and when all was said and done, they'd still be seriously weakened and in no real shape to oppose her.

So, yeah, what exactly is the problem here?

[Louis]

I was operating under the assumption that she had no intention of been detected, and that planned to kill some cerebrates as was pointed out near the end of the campaign. With this in mind you could just as easily say that it was Aldaris jeopordizing Kerrigans main goal of killing the second overmind which, assuming that she was telling the truth, would have enslaved her just like the previous overmind. So this raises the inevitable question of risk vs reward. She risks her liberty for the chance of causing dissension which would cripple her long term plans. I don't know the relative strength of the Protoss and the Zerg at that particular point in the story line, so I can not guess at the potential reward. And I'm quite sure that she would have caused an uproar regardless of Razagals condition. This whole topic may never have occured if Kerrigan had simply not spoken that one line which told us that she had shown herself on Shakuras to mastermind a plot which her physical presence may not have required. She didn't even contribute much besides killing some terrans, helping on Char, and come dangerously close to Aldaris informing Zeratul of Razagals corruption, but I don't know if Zeratul finding out would change anything. The campaign just leaves too many questions unanswered imo.

And alright, saying that it is a plot hole may be debatable, and I'm now kind of on the fence as to whether it is or is not a hole... but I am very unimpressed at how Kerrigan had operated on that planet, or the way it was written in general. Duran spoon feeding her the tactical advice which she needed to succeed throughout the Zerg campaign didn't improve her image of master manipulator in my eyes either.

[Norfindel]

Wasn't she there because she needed the DT to kill the new Overmind and Cerebrates?

Still, killing Aldaris was just stupid. She could had been surrounded by Protoss forces and reduced to sub-atomical particles. Asking she to leave was quite a mild, difficult to believe, reaction. Also, the fact that only Aldaris knew, and apparently didn't told it to anyone else, is ridiculous.

But yeah, the plot had a lot of inconsistencies. Let's assume that she can control Raszagal because she's very old. It's still a whole psychic race, didn't anyone noticed her Matriarch was under mind control? How did Kerrigan get close enough to her, and mind-controlled her without anyone noticing? The DT don't have any security at all? How did Aldaris notice? If it's so easy to mind-control leaders, why didn't she used that power more often?

[spychi]

the moment Kerrigan arrived to Shakuras was the moment when Raszagal underestimated her power of controling others

what I still don't get is the influence of a dark power on Kerrigan when she was infested, it just doesn't make sense, she had free will the moment she pop'ed out from the chrysalis and she knew what she was doing from the start.... even the Overmind said that she is free, I don't like how blizzard fucked up the story with that idea, it's just retarded

[Articorse]

the moment Kerrigan arrived to Shakuras was the moment when Raszagal underestimated her power of controling others

what I still don't get is the influence of a dark power on Kerrigan when she was infested, it just doesn't make sense, she had free will the moment she pop'ed out from the chrysalis and she knew what she was doing from the start.... even the Overmind said that she is free, I don't like how blizzard fucked up the story with that idea, it's just retarded

Actually the Overmind said that while she is free, she can never stray from his will. Those two might be a contradiction, but I personally think that the way the Overmind controls its subordinates is by implanting the idea that it is infallible and perfect, so even though the cerebrates and Kerrigan have free will, they have this idea in their heads that is, to them, not even debatable, as far as they are concerned, it's a fact that the Overmind is god.

While that is simply conjecture on my part, the Overmind did state that Kerrigan can't stray from his will.

[Louis]

the moment Kerrigan arrived to Shakuras was the moment when Raszagal underestimated her power of controling others

what I still don't get is the influence of a dark power on Kerrigan when she was infested, it just doesn't make sense, she had free will the moment she pop'ed out from the chrysalis and she knew what she was doing from the start.... even the Overmind said that she is free, I don't like how blizzard fucked up the story with that idea, it's just retarded

I have no idea where you got this theory from. She was free in the original, and she was free when tassadar popped up in WoL. I've only ever taken their literal word for it and haven't tried reading between the lines which is probably going to benefit me in the long run considering that Blizzard are so very, uh, flexible... with canon. But WoL does explain why the overminds greatest weapon against the protoss was left on the bench when he had invaded the homeworld of what we had assumed back then to be his greatest enemies which he had created Kerrigan for. So the new revelation does make the original SC more coherent in some ways, and in others... eh, well the story isn't over yet and Blizzard are said to be improvising the details as they go.

We've already derailed the hell out of this topic, but I'm curious about your sig... ME2 for GOTY? I've seen a lot of negativity to the ME2 plot and main characters as a stand alone game, and you need only to glance at the thousands of pages of topics on the offical forums to get the impression that ME2 angered a very vocal portion of the ME1 fans. I can understand why the original fans disliked the sequel, and I kind of dislike the main plot myself. But I still thin that there is a lot to like about it, like the squad members so GG to Bioware for them.

[spychi]

that actually happened in WoL in the end, All in mission

Both ME 1 and ME 2 have flaws
in ME 1 exploring planets was well kinda boring with how you traveled in MAKO
in ME 2 the RPG factor was reduced, lack of any kind of armor in space for other characters looks silly till this day
yet the game deserves GOTY of 2010 for sure, no other game can compare in action, story, gameplay from all games in 2010 in my opinion, it's almost perfect just like ME1
StarCraft 2 story is the most retarded and BS you can have in a video game, even AvP 2010 story was better... which is low
Assault char with a handful of terrans, agains billions of zerg, dropping a Xel'Naga bomb that de-infested Kerrigan...I predicted (and other people too) this de-infestation since we first saw the concept of Kerrigan laying on char helpless
drunk monkey could do better