[Discussion] The APM Sink Debate

[pure.Wasted]

I just wish that people would stop using the same arguements for this. Seriously I know you guys think your posts are clever and thought provoking but every single one Ive read like 10 times before. Try and come up with a point that someone hasnt brought up before. To do that your actually going to have to think very hard about macro from both a pro-macro and pro-micro viewpoint. Consider both sides of the arguement and try to integrate.

Why don't you bring up something new?

It's all been said before. All this is is a reminder of "who's on which side of the fence." You might remember my suggestions for a third resource (EMW, I think?) over on BF and Bnet. I still think that something along those lines would have made for the best solution, because the ones introduced by SC2, with the possible exception of Warp-In, are all temporary (ie, they're here for SC2 and with SC3 Blizzard will have to come up with new ones; and every game from then on, again, new ones).

Dumbing down the interface is not an option if Blizzard wants to appeal to gamers outside of a niche pro market. Period. But what they've done here... most of it is neither here nor there. I mean, MULEs work, but I would much rather they made the game more macro-complex at its core than by adding things onto the top of a framework that's already set in stone.

[ArcherofAiur]

Why don't you bring up something new?

Ive got some ideas im working on. Right now im waiting for Blizzard to develope their macro mechanics allittle more (which they will). When the time is right I will unviel my thoughts.

It's all been said before. All this is is a reminder of "who's on which side of the fence." You might remember my suggestions for a third resource (EMW, I think?) over on BF and Bnet. I still think that something along those lines would have made for the best solution, because the ones introduced by SC2, with the possible exception of Warp-In, are all temporary (ie, they're here for SC2 and with SC3 Blizzard will have to come up with new ones; and every game from then on, again, new ones).

Dumbing down the interface is not an option if Blizzard wants to appeal to gamers outside of a niche pro market. Period. But what they've done here... most of it is neither here nor there. I mean, MULEs work, but I would much rather they made the game more macro-complex at its core than by adding things onto the top of a framework that's already set in stone.

Agreed. You have the attitude most people here should have. Its ok to be critical of the current macro mechanics but you can no longer adopt the "get rid of macro" position. There is zero chance SC2 will not have MBS. There is zero chance SC2 will not have Macro. Get used to it.

[Medzo]

I played wc3 a lot and I was really good for an amatuer. Over the last year I have played BW a decent amount, mostly on ICCup. I can tell the vast differences in playstyle between wc3 and BW. In BW I spent a lot more time around the base and really lost a lot of visual time. However after awhile I got pretty use to it (not perfect, I didn't make a full transition).

I think some of the things argued about here are really unimportant, like automine. It took me around 3 games to split my workers, and it didn't take me many more to understand the whole macro concept behind the drone system and managing it. If I did end up messing it up it was habit from spending about 99% more hours playing wc3.

In TFT there was tons of micro, and as a side note when I started playing BW I got a lot of comments about how good my micro was. I think that SC2 will be focused more towards micro than BW was, but not as much as TFT. You have to remember that in wc3 even with automine/MBS you had a 100 food cap, upkeep costs (which made you want to stay below 50 as long as you could), units with much larger hitpoints, and you had to creep out expansions (imagine destructible rocks in every expansion spot). These may sound like subtle differences, but together they create an entirely different scenario. The hardest part in the transition between games for me was to get use to the food differences and the fact that I could throw down expansions so easily (and of course the builds).


TLDR; Automine doesnt change anything and MBS will make micro more important but not as important as say TFT because of differences in game mechanics.