[Discussion] The APM Sink Debate

[SpiderBrigade]

But no good player will. I've said it many times - save up all the energy you need for an emergency sweep, all other energy goes to MULES. Turrets and Sensor Towers will fill the Sweep role.

Err...saving energy for an emergency scanner sweep is what I was talking about, what's your point? Unless you mean that good players will never need a scanner sweep at all, which I find...hard to believe.

[DemolitionSquid]

No, the point of the mechanic is to boost your resources for a set period of time. How much you use it is completely up to you. You could just as easily just expand again, build more scv's or focus more on attacking and micro than you do on macro.

Of course how much you use it is up to you. In the sense that if you don't use it as much as the other guy, its equated to not building as many SCV's as he does, ie. his economy will be bigger and stronger than yours. Meaning that unless you have much superior micro, you'll be losing.

Those the the decisions you personally make as a player.

No one decides to lose.

However, feel free to show me a replay of yourself never going above 1000 minerals in starcraft, and I'll agree with you that you will use the mule constantly.

That has nothing to do with it. Having 10,000 minerals saved up and unused is better than have none. Period.

Err...saving energy for an emergency scanner sweep is what I was talking about, what's your point? Unless you mean that good players will never need a scanner sweep at all, which I find...hard to believe.

Sry, I misread. Pros will keep one, MAYBE two emergency sweep(s) and all other energy will go to MULES.

[DemolitionSquid]

Double Post, plz delete.

[Santrega]

So having 10,000 extra minerals saved up means you are winning the game? lol.. Sorry DS, but you will not need to use the mule in order to win, you will just have to take an advantage in micro battles, scouting, or map control. You can certainly over come a macro advantage, as pro players do it every day on starcraft.

[The_Blade]

Demolition Squid got a point...

its best to have more than needed than being limited.
but this doesnt disclaims the other tactics such as micro and scouting

[DemolitionSquid]

So having 10,000 extra minerals saved up means you are winning the game? lol.. Sorry DS, but you will not need to use the mule in order to win, you will just have to take an advantage in micro battles, scouting, or map control. You can certainly over come a macro advantage, as pro players do it every day on starcraft.

That is NOT what I said.

A good player will use every mineral he has. A good player will have A LOT of minerals. A player who can afford to horde 10,000 minerals is probably going win. Having 10,000 extra minerals laying around for emergencies is a good thing. Its also 10,000 minerals your opponent didn't get to mine. Everyone will use MULES. They will HAVE to to compete. As you yourself have said, income rate > all. MULES increase income rate.

And I'm done.

[Santrega]

That is NOT what I said.

A good player will use every mineral he has. A good player will have A LOT of minerals. A player who can afford to horde 10,000 minerals is probably going win. Having 10,000 extra minerals laying around for emergencies is a good thing. Its also 10,000 minerals your opponent didn't get to mine. Everyone will use MULES. They will HAVE to to compete. As you yourself have said, income rate > all. MULES increase income rate.

And I'm done.

The point you are missing is, you are assuming that you wont be able to gather more minerals then you can spend using normal gathering. I believe this is still the case, and therefore you will not need to use the mules all the time.

The mule is specifically for when you don't have enough income coming in to support your output of Buildings, units, and upgrades. At some point, if you are still expanding as normal, and especially if you are at high yield locations, you are going to have more resources than you need coming in, and it will be a waste of time for you to continue to build mules. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't make what you say true.

[DemolitionSquid]

The point you are missing is, you are assuming that you wont be able to gather more minerals then you can spend using normal gathering. I believe this is still the case, and therefore you will not need to use the mules all the time.

The mule is specifically for when you don't have enough income coming in to support your output of Buildings, units, and upgrades. At some point, if you are still expanding as normal, and especially if you are at high yield locations, you are going to have more resources than you need coming in, and it will be a waste of time for you to continue to build mules. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't make what you say true.

And by that statement, it's clear you've never played a game of SC.

So I really am done with you.

[sandwich_bird]

Which makes me think, do we still have to split the workers at the start? Probably not.

btw I'm _X_, my old account here was sandwich_bird so I decided to keep it.

[Pandonetho]

Which makes me think, do we still have to split the workers at the start? Probably not.

Nope, it autosplits now. Some people suggested making the first mineral from the first worker not count or count less to encourage some form of activity at the start to warm up because a lot of people will miss splitting workers. It was something that was truly hard to perfect and do consistently.