[Discussion] The APM Sink Debate

[mr. peasant]

As you are here, I'm guessing you've figured out by now that Blizzforums' Starcraft section has moved its operation here. So, to kick off the new forum, I thought it's only appropriate to start with one of the oldest discussions out there: the APM sink debate.

Throughout the latter portion of SC2's development, even to this day (at least if the German magazine being discussed recently is correct), Blizzard has been struggling to find a gas system that is both, easy enough for beginners to use intuitively, yet provides sufficient busywork for pros without putting new players too much at a disadvantage in terms of what they can produce. I think it's agreed that these goals are partly contradictory and difficult to achieve. Plus, Blizzard has also introduced the somewhat controversial 'macro abilities' such as MULEs and Proton Charge.

However, is there really a need for an APM sink? Busywork initially existed due to limitations of the interface, which is now a thing of the past. Why should there be a need to purposely create such roadblocks? Certainly, players will likely find other things to spend their time focusing on even if APM sinks completely disappeared, such as micromanaging their unit positions more tightly, etc.

So, what do you all think?

[DemolitionSquid]

There's no need for APM sinks. I can respect wanting to keep the balance between macro and micro, but most of the SC macro was based on basic UI. I firmly believe macro does not have to be busywork. It just needs to involve significant choices.

[Santrega]

I firmly believe this forum does not need this topic. I can't believe this was the first topic created :-(

Seriously... APM sink discussion when beta is starting soon? Next someone will do the MBS debate too, just because we are starting fresh again. Lets do something better, lets start fresh, without the old topics that no one wants to really talk about anymore.

[DemolitionSquid]

I want to talk about this.

MULES and Proton Charge are completely unacceptable. There must be a better way.

[Crazy_Jonny]

I firmly believe this forum does not need this topic. I can't believe this was the first topic created :-(

Seriously... APM sink discussion when beta is starting soon? Next someone will do the MBS debate too, just because we are starting fresh again. Lets do something better, lets start fresh, without the old topics that no one wants to really talk about anymore.

I partly agree, but excersing old ideas is never a bad thing. Blizzard could still be in the process of tweaking the macro mechanics.

As far as the APM sink goes, I dont mind it as long as its not just busy work.

To put it more simply:
New Mechanics>>>>>Dumbing down AI.

Im looking quite foward to being able to call down some mules on a fresh expansion, while being able to use MBS on my barracks; instead of spending 30 seconds hotkeying crap.

As far as the recent german article goes, they really dont tell how they judged the micro:macro. Did they base it on the number of abilities? Or did they actually compare the amount of times an ability was used?

StarCraft I's micro:macro ratio doesnt have to be duplicated, just imitated.

APM should be close, because we will find ways to make 'actions', but I forsee SC2 being a much faster game (tech tree wise).

[The_Blade]

Hi ppl

First of, like the new forums

Now to the topic, This is quite an old debate and have to agree with santrega with but no matter what ppl say i still think blizzard should chose a single macro technic out of the two of them (mineral bost & gas renew)

Why?
because this will return to the average of APM starcraft used to have that auto mine removed a while back. But still there is no mayor change to the overal base macro.

edit: have to agree with Crazy Johny about the micro:macro relationship

[Eligor]

Ideally timing should be more important than any amount of APM. Perhaps it could be allowed for any amount of workers to enter the Refinery/Extractor/Assimilator at any given time, with the difference from minerals being maintained by the amount of gas each worker brings back. It could allow the player a greater flexibility in managing his resources, of course it would entail the adjustment in the prices of all units (perhaps even a major shift in the game's economical paradigm) and could have potentially disastrous effects upon the gameplay without particularly enriching it.

[Zabimaru]

Off topic but I love how you’ve manage to keep the spirit of your sig Crazy Jonny.
And I’m opened minded to the new mechanics but they do seem... somewhat out of place. Maybe we just need to get used to them. Though micro is generally more exciting/ impressive to watch.

[Santrega]

I just think this is a non-issue. DS will love killing his opponents mules, and he'll love using them eventually. After a year no one will even remember the macro mechanics had opponents, and we'll all think its crazy.

[DemolitionSquid]

I just think this is a non-issue. DS will love killing his opponents mules, and he'll love using them eventually. After a year no one will even remember the macro mechanics had opponents, and we'll all think its crazy.

I'll love killing them because I HATE them. I will NOT enjoy having to go back to look at my base every 20 seconds to call MULES or PC knowing that if I don't, my economy will be in shambles compared to my opponent.

And neither will you.