Blizzard Suing Starcraft II Cheat Makers

[TheEconomist]

Then we can all "forget Poland".

Oh, he's Polish? Makes sense.

[spychi]

Mind quoting some news on how it's being "fixed"? I'm not insulting you at this point, just curious so I can understand your point/side more.

And I'm speaking on the IP rights issue, cause all the research I have is that Poland standardized their IP rights to a modern level in 2000, including software development as a protected art (among other subjects). In the same sites that I'm seeing in Poland, I'm also seeing them source the reason for this and the increasing concern for IP infringement in Poland, which seems to directly contradict your statements on the matter.

I don't get what all this have anything with what I said..

anyway I was talking about all this BS game CO's pull in america and which we are affected with while the goverment doesn't give a fuck, it's time to put an end to this by banning eula rights in our country and banning CO's like Blizzard to sell games this way in our country, it's what needs to be change it's against the constitution that a game company sells games that way, if you buy something you are the owner, period, you have the rights to modify it and sell with profit for yourself and a % profits of the native CO, this is how it works in our country

[TheRabidDeer]

I don't get what all this have anything with what I said..

anyway I was talking about all this BS game CO's pull in america and which we are affected with while the goverment doesn't give a fuck, it's time to put an end to this by banning eula rights in our country and banning CO's like Blizzard to sell games this way in our country, it's what needs to be change it's against the constitution that a game company sells games that way, if you buy something you are the owner, period, you have the rights to modify it and sell with profit for yourself and a % profits of the native CO, this is how it works in our country

If buying a game gave you 100% rights to the game and everything that it uses, then there would be lots of issues.

For example, cryteks cryengine and the unreal engine are both sold separate to companies that want to use them. When it was first being released, the unreal engine 3 was being sold for $1 million or around there. If people had the rights to modify the game if they bought the game they would have nearly all of the access to the engine for $50 and they would be out the costs of developing the engine.

There are lots of other issues with it too, but I have to leave for work now.

[MajinX]

I don't get what all this have anything with what I said..

anyway I was talking about all this BS game CO's pull in america and which we are affected with while the goverment doesn't give a fuck, it's time to put an end to this by banning eula rights in our country and banning CO's like Blizzard to sell games this way in our country, it's what needs to be change it's against the constitution that a game company sells games that way, if you buy something you are the owner, period, you have the rights to modify it and sell with profit for yourself and a % profits of the native CO, this is how it works in our country

when you sell a product you dont sell the design and science and development needed behind the product. The product is the last step, its everything inb/w that they arent selling you, think about cooking, if someone sells you a pasta dish you can have the dish, but u dont expect them to give you the recipe so u can and do anything else you want with it and basicly Steal the dish to resell urself.

[SinsWage]

The fact that I got drawn into this discussion shames me to no end so as a gift to the rest of you I'll take us in a short trip in the way back machine.

This is the person who swore they wouldn't be supporting blizzard because they had become a corrupt company bent on squashing the little guy. He called openly and often for a boycott. He then purchased Starcraft 2 at the first opportunity.

There is no way to sway his opinion by logic, reason or proof, no matter what the subject. Leave him to his delusions of a paradisaic world where there are no restricted rights and people are encouraged to enable the destruction of each other but never indulge in it.

[spychi]

The fact that I got drawn into this discussion shames me to no end so as a gift to the rest of you I'll take us in a short trip in the way back machine.

This is the person who swore they wouldn't be supporting blizzard because they had become a corrupt company bent on squashing the little guy. He called openly and often for a boycott. He then purchased Starcraft 2 at the first opportunity.

There is no way to sway his opinion by logic, reason or proof, no matter what the subject. Leave him to his delusions of a paradisaic world where there are no restricted rights and people are encouraged to enable the destruction of each other but never indulge in it.

sure I did, I also changed my mind when I was buying the game for SP, if I had the option to not buy the game I would, as the singleplayer is a huge failure
I still hate Blizzard for what they did with the game, multiplayer favors the weak and mindless retards choose Terrans as they require soo little skill to become OP faggotery

still you americans see things differently, in my opinion Blizzard and few other game CO's should be sued for violating customer's rights

on a side note; don't write things like "The fact that I got drawn into this discussion shames me to no end so as a gift to the rest of you I'll take us in a short trip in the way back machine." as it makes you look like a retardly wise person, you don't like me posting don't reply simple as hell ? otherwise you look like a retarded kid...

Oh, he's Polish? Makes sense.

I bet you don't know anything about us anyway, so no it doesn't make sense for you

[MajinX]

The fact that I got drawn into this discussion shames me to no end so as a gift to the rest of you I'll take us in a short trip in the way back machine.

This is the person who swore they wouldn't be supporting blizzard because they had become a corrupt company bent on squashing the little guy. He called openly and often for a boycott. He then purchased Starcraft 2 at the first opportunity.

There is no way to sway his opinion by logic, reason or proof, no matter what the subject. Leave him to his delusions of a paradisaic world where there are no restricted rights and people are encouraged to enable the destruction of each other but never indulge in it.

Thanks, I will know end my attempt to reason with him now.

[Gifted]

I don't get what all this have anything with what I said..

anyway I was talking about all this BS game CO's pull in america and which we are affected with while the goverment doesn't give a fuck, it's time to put an end to this by banning eula rights in our country and banning CO's like Blizzard to sell games this way in our country, it's what needs to be change it's against the constitution that a game company sells games that way, if you buy something you are the owner, period, you have the rights to modify it and sell with profit for yourself and a % profits of the native CO, this is how it works in our country

It's a shame that a small google search can show me how out of touch you are with your own country.

First, though this is common knowledge, on your own news sites it seems that there is a lot of admittance that piracy in Poland is on an upward high. In those same reports it also points out that the government raids are still happening, and the legislature is working to enforce higher copyright infringment laws but hasn't made progress on the sale of CD/DVD piracy yet. This is probably where you root your belief that the government doesn't care, cause if the problem increases, the government probably doesn't want to decrease it.

So then I went to the IIPA, and found an interesting report with some solid quotes that I'll trust more than you. When I read things like:

Open-air markets along the German border sell pirated and counterfeit products that hurt the legitimate industries in Poland and Germany, though raids last year resulted in lowering the visibility of this problem. There has been no progress on banning the sale of optical discs sale in the trading rules of the local marketplaces.

The business software sector experiences the greatest damage due to piracy in business organizations. Internet piracy, especially involving peer-topeer
(P2P) file-sharing networks, is on the rise. The Polish police are to be commended for their diligent work on Internet piracy cases; more resources for them would greatly aid this effort. Although there has been a good amount of cooperation between industry and police to take action against online infringements and hard goods piracy, numerous prosecutorial bottlenecks remain. Civil litigation is not a viable option. The continuing failure to impose deterrent penalties against copyright infringers, with respect to physical piracy and online piracy, contributes to the challenge in Poland.

It makes me feel like the government you talk about that "doesn't give a F###" could actually exist. But then I read on in the reports to find completely conflicting information for you.

The Polish government is in the midst of implementing its IPR strategic plan for 2008-2010. Legislative efforts to strengthen enforcement mechanisms, such as including criminal sanctions in the optical disc regulations and passing anti-camcording legislation, are still needed. Other efforts to examine amending the copyright law to address online issues and to regulate collecting societies is underway. Criminal procedures must be made more efficient and streamlined to avoid unnecessary delays. To avoid a high recidivism rate, Polish courts must impose adequately deterrent sentences.

This further looks into the fact that it's not that the Polish government doesn't care, it's that it's not caught up yet to the neccessary laws to combat it efficiently. In short, in time your government will have the same infrastructure as the majority of IP respecting countries have in place. Other reports also outline the facets that your government are going forward with to enforce their lacking copyright infringment and IP disrespecting procedures. The list includes:

• Enforcing local sale bans on pirate OD product, and monitoring markets both at the border and on the streets.
• Strengthening the divisions within police units which are responsible for Internet monitoring and gathering evidence
for criminal proceedings so that more actions can be pursued.
• Appointing and training specialized IPR prosecutors and harmonizing evidentiary procedures.
• Introducing criminal sanctions to Copyright Law regarding the monitoring of optical discs
• Including ex officio actions in the copyright and criminal law.
• Introducing anti-camcording legislation.
• Withdrawing the reservation to Article 12 of the Rome Convention.
• Clarifying the law on the protection of technological protection measures to eliminate the need for evidence of an
end-infringement and adding criminal provisions for the distribution of circumvention devices.

Now I remind you, in the words of "Spychi", the Government doesn't care.. so they couldn't be part of this list of actions and reports.. until I came to this portion:

The key Polish enforcement agencies on intellectual property rights issues include the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Interior and Administration and Police Headquarters. The Ministry of Culture heads the special governmental team responsible for combating piracy (the “Intergovernmental Team for Counteracting Infringements of Copyright and Related Rights”), which was created in 2000, and the copyright private sectors participate in the meetings of this group.

Two working groups have been established within the framework of the Intergovernmental Committee for the Prevention of Copyright Infringements: “Internet” and “Optical Disc”. The Internet Group which consists of representatives of the private sector and the Ministry of Culture and National Heritage, Ministry of Justice, State
Prosecutor’s Office and the Ministry of Interior, including the Main Police Office, has been working on proposals of amendments to the criminal part of the Copyright and Neighboring Rights Law. The Optical Disc Group began to work on the proposals of amendments to the Copyright and Neighboring Rights Law in the part referring to the optical disc production control and the Decision which regulates the law in this aspect.

That sounds like important portions of a Government to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spychi, I hate to say it man, but this is cut from a VERY recent IIPA (Internet Intellectual Property Alliance) report which Poland is a part of. It also contains information that's gained from translated google searched on your local news stories regarding IP infractions and a google search regarding your countries lawsuits regarding IP infringment. All the information researchable that ANYONE in this forum can look up will find the same conclusion... That the one core facet of your argument that had a chance to stand on it's own is a fallacy. Your government does care about IP rights as much as other countries you are slandering and are taking likewise actions.

That leaves your personal opinion and mentality. Unfortunately, your mentality is flawed and contains non-stop logical fallacies on this subject. The ultimate truth is piracy in your country is rampant because the government is still in the process of creating a solid structure to correctly combat IP infractions and copyright infringement. They respect IP rights as much as America as they have signed the same agreements in the IIPA. They admittedly do poor job of enforcing it, but are improving it by the year and are reporting forward progress.

This brings me personally to the conclusion that any argument you bring forward regarding "In Poland our Government doesn't care" is simply false. The Polish Government does care. .. the unfortunate truth is that they don't have the tools/ability to combat it efficiently yet because they are in the process of putting in place the proper infrastructure to do so. They are doing their best job with what they have so far and will improve over time.

Disclaimer: There is a lot more stuff I found on the subject that I honestly felt fascinating to look up, but I didn't include it because honestly it would just lead to another large reply, repeating indefinately until I close this thread. In short, the more I did research, the more I realize that my theory of "real world" vs "Spychi's world" is much more correct than I thought.

Personal Note to Spychi: I'm sorry, but it looks like your ideas to "fix the world's EULA evil company" issues is your ideas alone man. Hell, according to it's EULA, you own a license for ME2, which is from a company you've claimed multiple times you feel is not evil at all and have praised that game multiple times. There's just more loopholes in your argument because it's based off personal opinion, not logical fact or acknowledgement for the way the real world truly is man... even in Polish Laws.

[TheEconomist]

I bet you don't know anything about us anyway, so no it doesn't make sense for you

I know enough. I've read articles about many ass backwards laws in Poland. Poland seems to be at the fore front of such laws. I even have a friend at a Persona forum who is constantly complaining about these backwards ass laws:

http://gemini.aerdan.org/forums/inde...b36&board=10.0

And, the fact that you yourself admit this just gives me further proof.

I also know there's dozens of countries more prosperous economically than Poland. Stupid ass laws like the ones you're so proud of are part of the reason.

Anti-piracy measures are a necessity. Otherwise, the entire industry would collapse. Fact. Sure, they often times go about it the wrong way but they have every right to enforce their property to the best of their abilities. The reason America is the hardest in this area is because, quite frankly, we're the country that is the most pirated. If Poland was heavily pirated and it was severely effecting your economy, you'd care too. Poland has no Hollywood, no big gaming developers, no international music industry, and no heavily syndicated TV programs. Of course you and your country don't care as much about piracy. Relative to America, almost nothing that's yours is being pirated.

Seriously bro, think of the consequences of your ideas instead of getting so emotionally invested in it that you ignore all reason. You're thinking and making decisions emotionally; not rationally. You say you want to own the entirety of the games you buy? Without IP rights, you wouldn't even have a game to buy. Fact.

.

[Gifted]

After discussing with other staff, we've come to the same conclusion. This thread is on a tangent that is different than the OP and it's hit a point we agree it's better to close and walk on

Plenty of other subjects to touch on. Closed.