Macro Mechanics Discussion Thread

[Krikkitone]

Well for the fun, perhaps an immediate type of response like comsat, with potentially immediately significant, but unpredictable results? (assuming that is the Fun part of the Orbital command)

So something like countering the DT by sayin aha I have scan, or saying aha I see your build!

Transfusion might get some of that fun, giving a unit a boost, making it a 'minor hero' unit.

Perhaps if Transfusion was an area heal
75-100 energy
Target bio unit or Building heals 200-500 hp
all units in AOE of target heal 25-75 hp




PS CB and SL can be done from control groups as well

[n00bonicPlague]

Excuse my brain fart, but wtf is PS?

[Triceron]

Playstation

[Todie]

yeah i might paly random or even pick terran once in a while if their macro worked differently... its like, on paper terran macro is great, but in reality,they take much more work for me than zerg does: as terran you have to turn your screen to the mineral line to send down the mules... also, the addon coordination takes work, not least: you cant give production orders to the same building types at the same time unless they have the same addon; the requirement to tab between those with labs and those with reactors feels quite unnecessary.

[n00bonicPlague]

yeah i might paly random or even pick terran once in a while if their macro worked differently... its like, on paper terran macro is great, but in reality,they take much more work for me than zerg does: as terran you have to turn your screen to the mineral line to send down the mules... also, the addon coordination takes work, not least: you cant give production orders to the same building types at the same time unless they have the same addon; the requirement to tab between those with labs and those with reactors feels quite unnecessary.

Yeah, that threw me a bit as well, but I think it's done that way so that your low tech units that can be built with Reactor add-ons won't get in the way of your high tech units that need a Tech Lab in order to be built. Let's say you have two Barracks — one with a Reactor and one with a Tech Lab. With the tabbing between the two different Barracks, you can build all of your marines at the Reactor Barracks and all of your Marauders at the Tech Lab Barracks. If they were all in one group, Marines would get queued into the Tech Lab Barracks, causing the Marauders to come out much later than they need to. It's one of those things that they probably had to take some time to think on what would be best.

PS CB and SL can be done from control groups as well

Excuse my brain fart, but wtf is PS?

Playstation

lol I just realized that by "PS" he meant postscript. I thought he was listing it with "CB and SL" and thus referring to some macro mechanic that I had never heard of.

[ArcherofAiur]

This analogy is deeply flawed, though. One creep tumor will cover A LOT of the map with creep in a reasonable amount of time. Particularly where you NEED it. One SCV will not get you the minerals you want or need in sufficient time.

The analogy is not flawed. For both workers and creep tumors they generate mineral/creep over time.

No it's not. The amount of time a creep tumor needs to spread the creep versus the amount of time an SCV takes to gather minerals is not that close at all.

How long does it take a creep tumor to spread across a large map? Also the rate at which creep is spread is irrelevant to the original point that Creep Tumors give increasing returns over time (they are investments) just like workers give increaseing returns over time.

The second point was that getting additional Creep Tumors allows you to spread creep in an additional direction. I dont care how fast a creep tumor generates creep its still going to be faster to start another line going in another direction rather than "loop around" with one tumor line.

Plus terrain control works VERY differently from how resourcing works.

Dont know what you mean by that but im guessing the difference is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Aldrius]

The analogy is not flawed. For both workers and creep tumors they generate mineral/creep over time.

Yeah, but in different degrees and over different periods of time. Two creep tumors is sufficient for what most players will need from them for spreading the creep.

But I've kinda changed my mind about the Queen. Now I build multiple queens and I never have energy contention at all. Personally, I don't think that's a problem, because she's fun to use.

Spawn larvae still sucks, though. At least as far as being strategic and creating interesting choices.

How long does it take a creep tumor to spread across a large map?

A long time, but what enemy player is going to let you spread it across the half of the map they control?

Also the rate at which creep is spread is irrelevant to the original point that Creep Tumors give increasing returns over time (they are investments) just like workers give increaseing returns over time.

Of course it's relevant. You're trying to tell me that making multiple creep tumors is a good idea. I'm gonna go ahead and tell you that, that's true only to a certain point. Certainly not to the point that there's energy contention with spawn larvae.

But I still don't think energy contention is necessary in this case. You'll get the larvae you need. There's a cap on that. You can only have enough resources to support a certain number of units. Therefore, larvae will not help you there except in spawning more drones.

The second point was that getting additional Creep Tumors allows you to spread creep in an additional direction. I dont care how fast a creep tumor generates creep its still going to be faster to start another line going in another direction rather than "loop around" with one tumor line.

Sure, fine. WHEN you need to do that. But you generally don't create lines. You create creep AROUND an area. Overlords are more for pushing into enemy territory with creep than creep tumors are.

Dont know what you mean by that but im guessing the difference is irrelevant to the discussion.

It's not.

Creep tumor is a terrain control mechanic. An SCV gathering minerals is a resourcing mechanic.

Terrain control works differently than resourcing. Resourcing involves adding workers to get a greater return. Terrain control involves asserting dominance over a certain portion of the map. You need army units and forces or static defenses to control these areas.

In this instance, the creep speeds up your army in order for you to control more of the map. So you'll spread it to parts of the map you can actually control without risk of the tumors being destroyed.

Creep is basically the attack radius of a siege tank.

[ArcherofAiur]

Oh boy. They finally decided to talk about it.

Chrono Boost as well as the MULE are as much a tactical decision as any other in StarCraft II. In my experience, deciding when and where to use Chrono Boost is very critical to your strategy, same for deploying a MULE vs. saving extra energy and using the Orbital Scanner.
-Benzenn

Great points, but here are some details to consider.

Utilizing Chrono Boost, MULE, the Queen's abilities, and many other "energy-based" resources that aid players is a decision to be made by the player in situations where they deem them to be pivotal and beneficial in their strategy. We want players to develop their own strategies and use these tools to their highest potential.

If Chrono Boost, MULE or Spawn Larvae were auto-cast, there wouldn't be much strategy involved. These are not intended to make the game difficult, but rather, they provide each race with unique outlets for economy, unit production and many other decision-based tactics.

Allowing abilities to auto-cast is a difficult decision that comes on a case-by-case basis. We do not want to do everything for the player but at the same time there are some abilities that feel like they make the most sense for this.
-Benzenn

[DemolitionSquid]

MULES and CB should not be set to auto-cast. We haven't argued they should. We've said they could be channeled abilities, which is different from auto-casting. Spawn Larva is currently the only one we do think should be auto-cast, disagreeing with this Benzenn person.

Edited because Archer is a grammar nazi.

[ArcherofAiur]

Guys for rationalities sake please use the word "should" instead of "could".

Psi Storm COULD be set to autocast. Psi Storm SHOULD NOT be set to autocast.