Macro Mechanics Discussion Thread

[ArcherofAiur]

Another game where we see early creep tumor. Im telling you guys your underestimating the power of a early creep tumor

http://www.youtube.com/user/BlizShou.../0/gMBhoW8wJKM

[Draco]

How about a 25 energy move that makes all current Hatchery larvae grow X% faster for Ys?

"Growth Secretion" - A nourishing pool surrounds the Hatchery and invigorates the eggs.

It would see obvious use for any scenario where time is more important than efficiency because, simply, +4 larva > fractions, yet you have to wait 40s. So, there'll definitely be more tension than her little Deathcoil there, but most importantly, where you can coordinate the overlapping of the two abilities, giving the player the new option of pooling his energy for a concentrated attack. I liken it to a MTG play where you flip the 2/2 morph Elf to give all your Elf tokens +2/+2 and go in for the kill.

Then, channel Chrono Boost for Protoss, and do nothing for the Terran's Orbital Command. I think the Orbital Command is in a good position right now because MULE definitely isn't always the obvious way to go (and same goes for the OC for that matter), since a lot of abstract factors come into play, for example: You get more expansion pressure since you mined yourself out. Perhaps a buff to the Supply Drop, that might be lacking a little still?

Just fix those things and you're pretty much set.

*Apparently Todie has the same idea as me, seems to be a common, elegant answer to the problem at hand.

[ArcherofAiur]

How about a 25 energy move that makes all current Hatchery larvae grow X% faster for Ys?

"Growth Secretion" - A nourishing pool surrounds the Hatchery and invigorates the eggs.

It would see obvious use for any scenario where time is more important than efficiency because, simply, +4 larva > fractions, yet you have to wait 40s. So, there'll definitely be more tension than her little Deathcoil there, but most importantly, where you can coordinate the overlapping of the two abilities, giving the player the new option of pooling his energy for a concentrated attack. I liken it to a MTG play where you flip the 2/2 morph Elf to give all your Elf tokens +2/+2 and go in for the kill.

Then, channel Chrono Boost for Protoss, and do nothing for the Terran's Orbital Command. I think the Orbital Command is in a good position right now because MULE definitely isn't always the obvious way to go (and same goes for the OC for that matter), since a lot of abstract factors come into play, for example: You get more expansion pressure since you mined yourself out. Perhaps a buff to the Supply Drop, that might be lacking a little still?

Just fix those things and you're pretty much set.

*Apparently Todie has the same idea as me, seems to be a common, elegant answer to the problem at hand.

Two be honest the only two abilities that might need a slight but are supply depot and Transfusion. I would suggest


Calldown Supply
+8 Supply
+2 Armour


Transfusion
+125 to Permanent Health (building/unit gets green visual marker to show)
Can only be cast on a building/unit once (casting a second time just gives +125 healing)

[Draco]

Two be honest the only two abilities that might need a slight but are supply depot and Transfusion. I would suggest
Transfusion
+125 to Permanent Health (building/unit gets green visual marker to show)
Can only be cast on a building/unit once (casting a second time just gives +125 healing)

I like the concept. I don't know if I like the idea of letting it apply to units, but buildings seems like a fine thing to do. I'm just afraid that FE for Zerg would be unavoidable at that point. But, assuming it could be tweaked, it'd definitely make for an interesting outlet. I'm still more in favor of the Growth Secretion.

[ArcherofAiur]

I like the concept. I don't know if I like the idea of letting it apply to units, but buildings seems like a fine thing to do. I'm just afraid that FE for Zerg would be unavoidable at that point. But, assuming it could be tweaked, it'd definitely make for an interesting outlet. I'm still more in favor of the Growth Secretion.

Transfusion +125 permanent on building sounds like a better idea actually.

[Draco]

Transfusion +125 permanent on building sounds like a better idea actually.

How about Calldown Supply giving +8 Supply and +125 HP to a depot. Baneling bust seems to be a dominant strategy these days.

[newcomplex]

Holy crap this thread still going ;o.

In retrospect I think the issue is that Macro mechanics were an afterthought. They could have implemented them a lot more gracefully and intuitively if the game was designed ground up knowing they needed higher base -apm requirements, so more buildings could be designed in a way similar to protoss warp gates, but in different ways.

Think it was just too late when Macro mechanics made it into the game slightly more then half a year ago, esp because they were still expecting a November/december beta.

[Krikkitone]

Transfusion +125 permanent on building sounds like a better idea actually.

How about +100 hp permanently unit or building (only once). Restores 300 health (each time).
50 energy

Units are Visibly changed. (so the Super Zergling can be targeted)
Buildings don't need to be since +100 health isn't that important to them, the 300 hp healing is more for them.

This could lead to 'Zerg Heros' ie the units that your queen will heal, because they already have been transfused, making it worthwhile for her to do so.
But that probably won't be much of an issue, given the generally high death rate.

And Creep Tumor can be better with a "1 move/replant" rather "1 replicate" dynamic (assuming they only cost ~5 energy.)




As for Call down Supply, adding +2 armor Might be interesting (giving it an additional effect)... but remember Concentrated Coolness... it might be better to just make it +12 Supply instead. (ie if you use Call down it'll be worth it long run... but your Supply is more vulnerable, easier to kill)

[ArcherofAiur]

And Creep Tumor can be better with a "1 move/replant" rather "1 replicate" dynamic (assuming they only cost ~5 energy.)

The 1 replicate allows the creep tumor investment to gain value over time. The earlier the creep tumor the better the long term gain.

[Krikkitone]

The 1 replicate allows the creep tumor investment to gain value over time. The earlier the creep tumor the better the long term gain.

The problem is future investments are near valueless.... it becomes like building a spawning pool rather than like building a Hatchery... ie additional spawning pools aren't useful, additional Hatcheries are.

It makes it part of a Build order rather than being dynamic.

Creep tumors would still gain value over time because the earlier an area is Creeped, the more time you get to use the fast speed there (as well as the vision)