Macro Mechanics Discussion Thread

[ArcherofAiur]

I think people who like shooting stuff will always find non-shooting stuff somewhat boring.

[Triceron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpB2R...eature=related

@ Archer

That's a given. But it doesn't make RTS fans any more open to minigames.

[Pandonetho]

I think people who like shooting stuff will always find non-shooting stuff somewhat boring.

Which is irrelevant here because you're on a fan board of one of the most anticipated RTS games of all time. Don't make generalizations as part of an argument.

[n00bonicPlague]

The pattern I'm noticing is that the closer a mechanic is to the most direct point of interaction between players the more favored it is. Looking at an example from an FPS, a special weapon reload mechanic that happens during the fight will naturally be more appreciated than a special equipment purchasing mechanic that occurs inbetween missions.

For Starcraft (and as with most RTSs), the direct interaction is mah doodz killin' ur doodz. General mechanics like upgrades and research along with specific mechanics like Warp-In, interchangeable Reactors/TechLabs, and Spawn Larvae gain significant initial favor due to their "closeness" to the actual fighting. Why do you like upgrades? "Oh because it makes my units stronger than the enemy's." Why do you like Warp-In? "Oh because it gets my units where I need them fast."

Mechanics like the old gas mechanic, MULEs, and Photon charge are further back and thus initially less favored. Any of these mechanics could be just as effective as another, but the further away from the main up-front fighting the mechanic is the less favorable and more annoying it will be. Why do you like Proton Charge? "Oh because it gives me more minerals, which can, um...do......stuff that.........uh............OMG MY BASE IS UNDER ATTACK FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU---"

In a way, RTS players have strong ADHD tendencies. Things need to be quick and simple or else we'll lose interest. So, ultimately, it's not that "deeper" mechanics like MULEs and PC won't work — it's that they just don't suit the taste of an RTS. There's a reason why TBS and RTS split: they favor two different types of gamers. If SC2 is gonna be an RTS, it needs to play like an RTS. Having some economic depth is all well and good, but it can't be so deep that people get lost.

I might be going a bit far to say this, but it might actually be better to have a macro mechanic where you have to mash a button as fast as you can rather than have one where you wait 30 seconds in between clicks.

[Norfindel]

I might be going a bit far to say this, but it might actually be better to have a macro mechanic where you have to mash a button as fast as you can rather than have one where you wait 30 seconds in between clicks.

Then you can really make a SC keyboard with auto-smash

[n00bonicPlague]

Then you can really make a SC keyboard with auto-smash

Isn't that what those race buttons on the Z-board are for?

[Norfindel]

Isn't that what those race buttons on the Z-board are for?

Hehe! I hope there isn't a Blizzard employee reading this right now, and saying "oh, crap, new Toss macro mechanic back to the drawing board..."

[Kimera757]

The real reason for the beta delay?

[ArcherofAiur]

The pattern I'm noticing is that the closer a mechanic is to the most direct point of interaction between players the more favored it is. Looking at an example from an FPS, a special weapon reload mechanic that happens during the fight will naturally be more appreciated than a special equipment purchasing mechanic that occurs inbetween missions.

For Starcraft (and as with most RTSs), the direct interaction is mah doodz killin' ur doodz. General mechanics like upgrades and research along with specific mechanics like Warp-In, interchangeable Reactors/TechLabs, and Spawn Larvae gain significant initial favor due to their "closeness" to the actual fighting. Why do you like upgrades? "Oh because it makes my units stronger than the enemy's." Why do you like Warp-In? "Oh because it gets my units where I need them fast."

Mechanics like the old gas mechanic, MULEs, and Photon charge are further back and thus initially less favored. Any of these mechanics could be just as effective as another, but the further away from the main up-front fighting the mechanic is the less favorable and more annoying it will be. Why do you like Proton Charge? "Oh because it gives me more minerals, which can, um...do......stuff that.........uh............OMG MY BASE IS UNDER ATTACK FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU---"

In a way, RTS players have strong ADHD tendencies. Things need to be quick and simple or else we'll lose interest. So, ultimately, it's not that "deeper" mechanics like MULEs and PC won't work — it's that they just don't suit the taste of an RTS. There's a reason why TBS and RTS split: they favor two different types of gamers. If SC2 is gonna be an RTS, it needs to play like an RTS. Having some economic depth is all well and good, but it can't be so deep that people get lost.

I might be going a bit far to say this, but it might actually be better to have a macro mechanic where you have to mash a button as fast as you can rather than have one where you wait 30 seconds in between clicks.

You have to realize that what you just said is characterizing only one type of RTS player. Other RTS players enjoy these games for different reasons (and indeed there are no hard and fast distinctions but rather continuems). If Starcraft 2 really is going to raise they bar then it needs to achieve not just as a micro RTS (ala DOW and C&C4) but as a economic and strategy game as well.



But you are right allot of players just want to blow shit up. They'd be thrilled if every unit had a secondary AoE damage ability (here is looking at you RA3). And to a large extent they will find that in SC2 the fast paced action they are looking for. But they are not the only ones playing SC2. For the people looking for a well developed economic system SC2 will hopefully have an advanced macro infrastructure.

[Triceron]

You have to realize that what you just said is characterizing only one type of RTS player.

I think people who like shooting stuff will always find non-shooting stuff somewhat boring.

Pot, meet Kettle?