Macro Mechanics Discussion Thread

[Nicol Bolas]

Clearly if they changed PC to include probes losing their shield you still aren't satisfied, and I don't think you will ever be. I think you guys are unreasonable.

I would point out that I wouldn't be satisfied with Probes losing their shields. I don't buy that this creates any actual choice.

In order for this to create a viable choice, there has to be a reason to use it and a reason not to. And that both of the circumstances that make you choose one from the other have to show up.

If the effect on probes is to make them far too weak to harassment, then there's simply no choice: the moment the Protoss player sees even the first hint of possible harassment, he's shutting PC down forever. He just can't take the risk. If a suicide squad of 6 Mutalisks can ravage half his supply of Probes, he simply has to stop using PC.

In which case, the most choice you get is how early to stop using the spell.

That's not acceptable. The Terrans and Zerg are perfectly capable of abusing their resourcing mechanic. You'd then have to balance the Protoss by basically pricing their units and buildings and such as though they didn't have a resourcing mechanic, so that they'd be able to achieve some degree of parity. That means an ~20% price reduction for the Protoss. Either that, or the other two mechanics get equivalent drawbacks.

This change just raises far too many questions, even in the best possible case. It too easily can degenerate into "it's not worth using PC" or "it's worth using PC".

Proton Charge is not a good mechanic. But it's also not a good enough mechanic to be worth saving. Like other ideas that went the way of the dodo, like Soul Hunters and the like, PC needs to be put out to pasture and replaced with something better.

I don't think making a permanent resource boost would do anything to increase skill requirements.

It's funny how you cite something that nobody was arguing for. Nobody ever claimed that such a thing would provide an increase to the skill requirements.

[pure.Wasted]

And despite all my talk of "high standards," none of this is actually that high a standard at all. This is all incredibly reasonable.

[ArcherofAiur]

What about "Queen Nesting?" Where the Queen gets to sit on the Hatchery and cause it to constantly produce more larva.

It has the exact same effects as Spawn Larva. Except that it doesn't require you to constantly click anything.

Do you see the difference there? Exact same effects without the constant clicking.

You can alter each macro mechanic to get almost identical effects, the same increased unit production or resourcing or whatever, but without the clicking busywork. It is the clicking busywork that is being argued against, not the getting more resources.

The "clicking busywork" is the primary desired effect. You may not consider it a skill but blizzard does. The point of the mechanic is to promote that skill.

This all stems from the fact that you dont like the skill and therefore you are trying to phrase the debate under the assumption that no mechanic should emphasize "mindless busywork". The reason these mechanics arnt automated is because we dont want them to be automated. A "Nesting Queen" would be a worthless macro mechanics.

[DemolitionSquid]

The "clicking busywork" is the primary desired effect. You may not consider it a skill but blizzard does. The point of the mechanic is to promote that skill.

And again: why then add MBS and auto-mine if SBS and manual mining accomplished the "goal" of clicking busywork?

Answer: its not the goal.

[ArcherofAiur]

And again: why then add MBS and auto-mine if SBS and manual mining accomplished the "goal" of clicking busywork?

Because "clicking busywork" is (and should be) a more advanced task. Its not appropriate as a basic task and hinders new players from learning how to play. We've explained this several times. The "clicking busywork" task has been improved not removed.

[DemolitionSquid]

Because "clicking busywork" is (and should be) a more advanced task. Its not appropriate as a basic task and hinders new players from learning how to play. We've explained this several times. The "clicking busywork" task has been improved not removed.

You've never really explained that, you more "danced around the issue and hoped we'd get it." Its good to see you've finally formulated a simple thought about your position.

You see busywork as a skill to master, and we see it as tedious and thoughtless. Its clear to me now this issue cannot be resolved.

[ArcherofAiur]

You've never really explained that, you more "danced around the issue and hoped we'd get it." Its good to see you've finally formulated a simple thought about your position.

You see busywork as a skill to master, and we see it as tedious and thoughtless. Its clear to me now this issue cannot be resolved.

Its not just me. Its the majority of people who play or follow Starcraft competitively oh and Blizzard.

But heres the thing. I see where you guys are coming from and I understand that there are parts of this game that you might not like. If its any consilation the single player expeirence should place allot more emphasis on decision making (what upgrades do I buy with my credits) than the competitive "busywork" skill.

[DemolitionSquid]

Its not just me. Its the majority of people who play or follow Starcraft competitively

Which is actually a TINY portion of the player-base.

Unless you mean just Korea.

oh and Blizzard.

How many times do we have to go over this? Don't say things unless you have PROOF.

[ArcherofAiur]

Which is actually a TINY portion of the player-base.

But a incredibly large portion of the competive multiplayer scene.

How many times do we have to go over this? Don't say things unless you have PROOF.

Ive talked with informed people. Take that for what you will.

[DemolitionSquid]

But a incredibly large portion of the competive multiplayer scene.

Who is still a tiny portion of the player base.

Ultimately, whether these macro mechanics survive or not will be based on simply how fun they are. And I think we've made a pretty good case against PC being fun.

Ive talked with informed people. Take that for what you will.

I take it as more of your cryptic circle-jerking.