Patch 1.1

[SuperKiller]

people claim things are hard counters not even knowing if it is true or not. micromarines can beat banelings without a scratch and banelings can rape marines as well. that isn't a hard counter system.

while the immortal shield is great and all, the immortal realistically plays 2 different roles.. either take the damage (siege tanks) for other units, or dish the damage (marauder, roach, ultra). if they are taking the damage they will probably die before causing much of any themselves, but to last long enough to really dish the damage they need something else to take the hits. immortals need something else like zealots to take the hits if they are going to take down marauders well enough. but then a little micro with the marauders allows them to hit the zealots without getting shot, or the zealots aren't blocking the way and the marauders can focus the immortals before damage is done. really

i think the only way you are gonna get good use of immortal vs marauder is with force field. zealot sentry immortal sounds pretty good. also a ramble but does the guardian shield protect that allows immortal shield to only take 8 damage? would be interesting if it did.

[DemolitionSquid]

Guardian Shield reduces ALL incoming ranged damage by 2. So yes, Immortals take 8 instead of 10.

[Norfindel]

mmm... that depends on when it's applied, if before of after the Hardened Shields mechanic. Either case, it will help to soak more damage from Marines.

It's gas-expensive as hell, however, specially considering that the Terran player needs only 25 gas per Marauder for his M&M build.

The Immortal is said to deal Terrible, Terrible damage vs Armored, but two Marauders will deal 40 already, for a cost of 200m 50g, and a total of 250hp, and 1 extra range, and Slow, and T1.5. Not bad.

EDIT: i forgot about Stim. That would temporarily raise the damage of the two Marauders to 60 (well, it would really raise the attack rate, not the attack power, but it's better vs Immortals, anyways).

[Amph]

i think they are overpriced, 200/100 like a revaers, would be cool.
or maybe 225/75...the problem is also, the building from where you product them(200/200 is too expensive...)

[RamiZ]

The Immortal is said to deal Terrible, Terrible damage vs Armored, but two Marauders will deal 40 already, for a cost of 200m 50g, and a total of 250hp, and 1 extra range, and Slow, and T1.5. Not bad.

Let say this again, it is not that Immortals are weak but that Marauders are too strong as usual, they beat everything with DPS vs. armored.

[Norfindel]

Let say this again, it is not that Immortals are weak but that Marauders are too strong as usual, they beat everything with DPS vs. armored.

I was talking about their use against Marauders. See the discussion above.

Anyways, for what they cost and what they do, i use them mostly against Ultralisks, late game, and that's all. By then, you have Colossi support to get rid of Zerglings or other Light units that will try to bring them down. But against Terrans, it's just too much of an early investment that doesn't really pay off, and you're screwed when 1 million cheap units attack-moves against your army, and kill that expensive unit in a second.

[protoswarrior]

That's why you micro that expensive unit to prevent it from dying when it gets focused.

Also, Immortals aren't the be-all end-all against marauders. They're more of a stepping stone to allow you time between attacks to get Colossus tech. Once you hit Colossus, you can start gearing up your macro to produce mass charge-lots and High Templar with Storm.

Think of it like this for unit composition:


Early game

Zealot / Sentry with some Stalker support, and later on 1 Immortal

Transition Tech: Colossus with Thermal Lance Upgrade, and Charge for Zealots


Mid-Game

Charge-Zealots / Sentry / Supporting Stalkers and 2-3 or so Colossus (+ the Immortal if it isn't dead already)

Transition tech: High Templar and Psionic Storm + Khaydarin Amulet


Late-Game

Zealots with Charge / High-Templar with Storm/Feedback / Colossus with Thermal Lance / and Enough Stalkers to kill Vikings and or Banshee

Or, add a few Immortals instead of 1-2 Colossus to fight Tanks.

Transition Tech: Mass Phoenix, Void-Rays (from 3+ Stargates), Carriers, Mothership


That should sum it up.

[Pandonetho]

micromarines can beat banelings without a scratch and banelings can rape marines as well. that isn't a hard counter system.

Really? Mind showing me a video then where banelings lose to a marine only force? If you want to argue technicalities then fine, technically marines can win in the right situation against banelings. Banelings hard counter missile turrets, how's that work for you?

[TheEconomist]

I destroy tons of Banelings by Microing NOTHING but Marines all the time. Especially recently where I've decided to try to switch up my strategies.

[sandwich_bird]

Continue the discussion there: http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7294

Closed.