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Thread: Patch 1.1

  1. #11
    Maul's Avatar Member
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    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabimaru View Post
    I'd think it'd come out after the GSL.
    My thoughts exactly. Some of the changes will directly effect some of the players strategies, eg no more hero BCs :P
    I really need to change this...
    Check out my maps: Maul's Spirial Turret Defense and Maul's Risk: Bel'shir

  2. #12

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by RamiZ View Post
    People are talking much about it, but they are changing build time from 33 to 38. With Chrono Booster, that is like 2 sec later Zealot on fastest game speed. So I don't think it will be much of a problem.
    But on the other hand, changing cooldown on Warp Gates is great thing, I was talking about them since day 1, it is just to good to have all units on 23 sec cooldown. When Protoss start overmassing Zerg, you know something is wrong... :P
    Spawn Larvae should allow better macro than Chrono Boost. When a Zerg player uses it right, they can make tons of units, and you better get some AoE ASAP, or you're screwed.

    But i think it's ridiculous that all units get the same build times from Warpgates. They had different build times for a reason.

    In general, i think they were too overconfident with all the mechanics that affect macro, and this is going to cause troubles for quite some time. They should had balanced the game without them, and then add them, and see how they modified things. But no, they just thrown them in, and now they're an absolutely critical aspect of the game, instead of something just to show your skill. As the Protoss have Chrono Boost, they have some critical upgrades that need to be chronoboosted all the time, or you can die from old age before they finish.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    But no, they just thrown them in, and now they're an absolutely critical aspect of the game, instead of something just to show your skill.
    They should be critical, as critical as making workers. Even low-skilled players of SC1 couldn't just ignore macro. Why should they be able to in SC2?
    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C. S. Lewis

    "You simply cannot design a mechanic today to mimic the behaviour of a 10-year old mechanic that you removed because nearly nobody would like them today." - Norfindel, on the Macro Mechanics

    "We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks." - Dustin Browder

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  4. #14
    Briggs's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    I'm going to bump this whole ordeal to the next level.

    There shouldn't be conflicts on any strategy/imbalance/game issues, at all. The conflicts will never produce a favorable outcome. This patch is most likely taking that thought-process into effect. They are changing the game, not from the complaints of the majority, but the basic structures and clear mistakes made on the developer's part.

    We, as players and humans, have the unique ability to adapt, those that become great successes in this world, both starcraft and in the traditional world, have a much larger perspective on how the mechanics of these things work, and adapt to them much quicker.

    Whether these changes coming are from someone posting about them or not, which seems unlikely due to the fact the majority of the player-base is complaining on other matters, I believe that arguments won't solve anything, we'll have to adapt or give up the reasons why we play this game at all.

    To be satisfied is to never succeed, to succeed is to never be satisfied. Adaptation is what brings about change.
    Last edited by Briggs; 09-14-2010 at 11:54 AM.

    Life is NOT a privilege, it is NOT a right, it is a pleasure,..Live it.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    My thoughts are:

    1) general notes: a) The patch will come after the tournament
    b) @Norfindel: I agree some Protoss upgrades/researches are agonizingly slow

    2) Terran fixes:
    a) The marauder nerf should be the loss of the concussive shells and -10 hp plus a small buff (+1) to the marauder's attack speed
    b) Siege tank changes: i. hp +10, ii. both damages -5, iii. New Upgrade: Carnage class shells: 200/200 cost, 45 sec time, allows siege mode splash to damage air, increases splash radius +1, researched from Tech Lab, but requires Fusion Core and Armory
    c) Thors only require Armory. Can be double produced w/ reactor. time increased by 25.
    d) Viking: -1 range for +1 to 1.5 movement speed, -0.1 accleration

    3) 3 Zerg changes:
    a) Roach: +1 start range, -20 hp
    b) Infestor mods: i. Infested Terran energy increased so that each infestor can launch only 2 at a time, ii. Infestor pop usage increased to 4 or even 6 control.
    c) Spawn larvae overhaul: Spell will require a minimum of 2 hatches built to cast as it will now spawn larvae on 2 hatches at once.
    d) ling: i. build time increased by +5, ii. ling movement speed to require Lair

    4) Protoss changes:
    a) Chrono boost duration doubled, cost to 30-35 energy, speed increase up by 25%
    b) Gateways/Warpgates can no longer be boosted after construction completes.
    c) Warpgate i. upgrade cost upped to 100/100, ii. cooldown increased to 45, iii. unit warp-in time increased by 3 seconds
    d) Zealot: i. charge research time reduced from 140 to 115
    ii. build time increased by 5 seconds
    e) Mothership no longer requires direct resources to build because it transforms literally from a nexus. Player will lose a nexus to create a mother ship. Vortex range increased to envelop everything on screen (about 10)
    f) Phoenix damage +1, hp +50
    g) Carrier gains second capacity upgrade so it can carry 12 Interceptors
    h) Immortal gets a +1 range buff

    5) Battlecruiser note: I think this is balanced pretty nicely betweeen corruptors, void rays, and bcs.

    Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Briggs View Post
    I'm going to bump this whole ordeal to the next level.

    There shouldn't be conflicts on any strategy/imbalance/game issues, at all. The conflicts will never produce a favorable outcome. This patch is most likely taking that thought-process into effect. They are changing the game, not from the complaints of the majority, but the basic structures and clear mistakes made on the developer's part.

    We, as players and humans, have the unique ability to adapt, those that become great successes in this world, both starcraft and in the traditional world, have a much larger perspective on how the mechanics of these things work, and adapt to them much quicker.

    Whether these changes coming are from someone posting about them or not, which seems unlikely due to the fact the majority of the player-base is complaining on other matters, I believe that arguments won't solve anything, we'll have to adapt or give up the reasons why we play this game at all.

    To be satisfied is to never succeed, to succeed is to never be satisfied. Adaptation is what brings about change.

    So true. So true.
    Last edited by flak4321; 09-14-2010 at 12:24 PM.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by flak4321 View Post
    My thoughts are:

    1) general notes: a) The patch will come after the tournament
    b) @Norfindel: I agree some Protoss upgrades/researches are agonizingly slow

    2) Terran fixes:
    a) The marauder nerf should be the loss of the concussive shells and -10 hp plus a small buff (+1) to the marauder's attack speed
    b) Siege tank changes: i. hp +10, ii. both damages -5, iii. New Upgrade: Carnage class shells: 200/200 cost, 45 sec time, allows siege mode splash to damage air, increases splash radius +1, researched from Tech Lab, but requires Fusion Core and Armory
    c) Thors only require Armory. Can be double produced w/ reactor. time increased by 25.
    d) Viking: -1 range for +1 to 1.5 movement speed, -0.1 accleration

    3) 3 Zerg changes:
    a) Roach: +1 start range, -20 hp
    b) Infestor mods: i. Infested Terran energy increased so that each infestor can launch only 2 at a time, ii. Infestor pop usage increased to 4 or even 6 control.
    c) Spawn larvae overhaul: Spell will require a minimum of 2 hatches built to cast as it will now spawn larvae on 2 hatches at once.
    d) ling: i. build time increased by +5, ii. ling movement speed to require Lair

    4) Protoss changes:
    a) Chrono boost duration doubled, cost to 30-35 energy, speed increase up by 25%
    b) Gateways/Warpgates can no longer be boosted after construction completes.
    c) Warpgate i. upgrade cost upped to 100/100, ii. cooldown increased to 45, iii. unit warp-in time increased by 3 seconds
    d) Zealot: i. charge research time reduced from 140 to 115
    ii. build time increased by 5 seconds
    e) Mothership no longer requires direct resources to build because it transforms literally from a nexus. Player will lose a nexus to create a mother ship. Vortex range increased to envelop everything on screen (about 10)
    f) Phoenix damage +1, hp +50
    g) Carrier gains second capacity upgrade so it can carry 12 Interceptors
    h) Immortal gets a +1 range buff

    5) Battlecruiser note: I think this is balanced pretty nicely betweeen corruptors, void rays, and bcs.

    Thoughts?
    My only thought is thank Adun you aren't responsible for the balance. Some of your changes are needlessly minor, and others are absolutely retarded.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    @demosquid

    I usually think you are a bit harsh, but I agree. Those changes would devastate the game I love so much.

    Siege tank do splash damage to air units? what the hell? Double pump thors? I play terran, and even I think that those are absurd.

  8. #18
    Junior Member
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    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Marauders need a nerf but really people stay calm. Nerf them too hard or remove them and bio is not viable past 5 minutes or so. Teir 1.5 bling, tier 2.5 tank, and tier three colossi or templar, annhilate marines, and ghosts cant fix that. That would limit terrans to some kind of mech except for timing pushes and lower gameplay depth.

    It would especially kill the depth in tvt, unless you want broodwar style 40 minutes siegetank viking battles.

  9. #19
    dustinbrowder's Avatar Banned
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    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by RamiZ View Post
    People are talking much about it, but they are changing build time from 33 to 38. With Chrono Booster, that is like 2 sec later Zealot on fastest game speed. So I don't think it will be much of a problem.
    But on the other hand, changing cooldown on Warp Gates is great thing, I was talking about them since day 1, it is just to good to have all units on 23 sec cooldown. When Protoss start overmassing Zerg, you know something is wrong... :P
    That's whats bad about it. What if i don't use chrono boost on gates?
    Maybe I'm totally macro player and only use it on workers, why should I now must use it with the zealot reduced build time?

    Any other way to fix it is fine, for example gateway build time increase, warp gate research increased, but not the time of the zealots.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Patch 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by almostfamous View Post
    @demosquid

    I usually think you are a bit harsh, but I agree. Those changes would devastate the game I love so much.

    Siege tank do splash damage to air units? what the hell? Double pump thors? I play terran, and even I think that those are absurd.
    I thought they bordered those limits as I wrote them, but I felt I needed something for terran after I had written the Zerg and Toss parts. Haven't you ever seen a war movie or action movie where shrapnel from an exploding tank or truck damaged a low flying plane? That one is not so outlandish, but is perhaos just as unnecessary. I ultimately defer to your point. However:

    @Demo also: Needlessly minor? I agree, in many instances. I wrote this as a litmus test, not as an actual proposal, but I disguised that intent to gauge reactions. I will, however, agree that some the test proposal was out there, as you two said, so perhaps I overreached my target.

    I turn my post now to all: While we can all see there is some imbalance in the game just yet, I ask you each to reconsider my first post as an illustration of just how minor the imbalances are. Subtracting the greatest absurdities, the siege tank, thor, mothership and carrier changes first, would you not still have to admit that to some extent, the imbalances may be too minor to risk other imbalance for the sake of balancing what currently is imbalanced?
    Last edited by flak4321; 09-14-2010 at 01:14 PM.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

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