Don't you hate it?

[DemolitionSquid]

Nah. Marauders don't give me trouble any more. It was a PvP though. Can't figure out what kind of unit composition I should be going for here - whether I should use Chargelots, as they're one of the most efficient ground units, or use Stalker/Sentry to kite/trap stuff. My hunch is:
1 Base = Stalkers/Chargelots
2 Bases = Stalkers/Sentries/Immortals only or transition into colossi.

Most PvP is just a bunch of one-basing. Need to figure out this matchup.

PvP is my worst matchup, if my opponent is actually good. Thankfully, most Protoss I play against Zealot rush into Void Rays, so I can safely block my choke, spam Blink Stalkers, and micro around everything.

[TheRabidDeer]

I'm with MajinX. 4 Gate Robo is standard for a reason. You don't need to be pumping Immortals and Colossi from that Robo. Its the Observers and Warp-Prisms that count.

4 gate robo isnt standard... 3 gate robo is though.

:s i think protoss should usually get 1 obs at all times anyways, seems like its all ur fault lol, shoulda listened to ur gut. with the way it sounds, this is quite early game and he only had 3-4 DTs raiding you.... if u couldnt stop it why didnt u mass ur entire army into his bases? if he tech'd up ur army should be bigger than his.

Yea, I FE'd and he went DT. My build beats everything but DT, and sadly even scouting his base with an obs wouldnt have helped either since his shrine was on the opposite end of the map as either of us and if my obs was in his base I couldnt have had a 2nd out early enough (I generally dont pump 1 then another).

Also since I FE'd my army was just getting to the point of a "normal" army. It is an unusual build and style, but I like it. I have gone 8-1 using it so far with my first loss being to this 1100 point protoss that was planning to use DT's from the beginning.

[DemolitionSquid]

All I see everyone ever talk about or play is 2 gate or 4 gate. 3 Gate is rare from my experience.

[TheEconomist]

This game has been pissing me off lately, especially when I lose for stupid reasons while I'm clearly better than the other player. Just yesterday I dominated some guy that had half my apm all game, and then at the end he won a major battle with a less-resource army for no apparent reason.

Let me guess: Mauraders were in there

[TheRabidDeer]

All I see everyone ever talk about or play is 2 gate or 4 gate. 3 Gate is rare from my experience.

You cant really go 4gate robo and produce from all of the buildings, you just dont have the resources. Think of it this way:
Each production cycle (think its like 32 seconds) of a 4 gate you spend at least 500 minerals, and 8 supply which is another 100 minerals for the pylon. The best you can really get economy wise off of one base is about 730 minerals per minute. So off of one base, you really cant afford to produce from 4 warpgates and a robo. 3 gate robo works OK though (but you cant get colossus with 3 gate)

[DemolitionSquid]

I'm pretty certain the people getting the 4 Gate Robo are only getting Observers and the occasional Immortal.

[Skyze]

man This feeling ive had ever since I came back to BW in 2008.. like fuck, PvZ is just the worst.. because I secure my expo (on bw, it was the bisu forge-first expo, but it applies to SC2 also now gate-forge-expo) and once I do that.. Even if its only literally 10 seconds after I have my expo up.. I get this "MUTAS ARE COMING" warning in my brain.. and like, In reality, Mutas are at least 3-4 minutes away, and my scouting probe determines this too, but for some reason it keeps nagging me to the point where I spend useless minerals on cannons to secure my base instead of gateways/probes.. and I end up losing because of it, because I dont secure an advantage with my expo being up.

I dont know why I do it, I know its wrong, but I do it anyways.. I try to suppress it but it eventually consumes me and I give in.

And the difficult part is now, ONTOP of this.. I also have to place pylons around my whole base to watch for Nydus worms! So, ugh its a lot of unnecessary brainwaves that screws me over in some games. The funny thing, is as soon as I skip cannoning my main and place the pylons around the base first, thats when the mutas come and catch me off-guard.. but if I place my cannons first, thats when the nydusworm will sneak in the side of my base.

BTW Rabid, I have a game I played an hour ago that would totally piss you off..

PvP, He random'd so I had no idea he was P, but I went 10gate fast warp anyways (as I do vs random, just incase).. I did not do it to cheese pylon his main, just to gain an earlygame advantage in units. Anyways, turns out he spots the pylon I placed in the middle of the map and sends his stalkers to stop it.. I had 2 stalkers in my base but my building placement was bad and my ramp blocked them in (zealots could get thru but stalkers couldnt).. so even tho I warp in enough to stop him there, by the time I goto his base (minus the two stuck stalkers in my base) he has immortals out that make quick work of most of my army. I then see he has 1 collosus out with his stalker/immortal/mix and comes to own my base, taking out 2 gateways on my ramp so far.

In the meanwhile, I warped 2 DTs to walk into his main, and they start doing damage.. but since he went robo he had an observer.. but somehow my 2 DTs took out 3 stalkers and wittled his main/expo down. Meanwhile though, He had at least 2 collosus, 1 immortal, 6 stalkers and 3 sentries in my base.. vs my 3 stalkers and 20 probes.. You'd think that his army would win no prob right? Thankfully though, since my DTs are doing dmg in his base, I warp 2 more DT to my main, and they slowly (and i mean slowly..) wipe out his whole army since his only observer was at his base.. so Im left with 2 DT and 3 probes, but he has no nexus's and 1 stalker....

So of course, he ragequit out.. (to be fair, I owned him with 1 voidray rush the game before it rofl)

[TheRabidDeer]

I'm pretty certain the people getting the 4 Gate Robo are only getting Observers and the occasional Immortal.

If you are going 4 gate, you want to be aggressive early, not wait for the robo to finish and get an observer in his base. Its OK to put pressure on then back off and expand or put a robo down, but the robo isnt part of the build and if you are doing a 4 gate you should be constantly in his face.

I havent heard of 4gate robo as that would imply that you are producing from the gateways and the robo. I am pretty sure the build you are thinking of is 3 gate robo though.

EDIT: lol at that game skyze, DT warpin is painful for sure. The guy I played against tried to proxy pylon to warp in his DT's but I found it. I had just assumed he was trying to proxy 4 gate.... then he just walked them over and walked over me >.>

DT's are the bane of me sometimes because they are just so rarely used.

[Bisso]

Now versus Protoss, I ALWAYS tech for detectors, and it becomes a priority, I don't lose often against a protoss, but I ALWAYS lost to them when they had DTs, now they don't even try it anymore. I just make sure the toss player know I have a detector, he will never go tech DT.

[senervo]

Now versus Protoss, I ALWAYS tech for detectors, and it becomes a priority, I don't lose often against a protoss, but I ALWAYS lost to them when they had DTs, now they don't even try it anymore. I just make sure the toss player know I have a detector, he will never go tech DT.

funny, i find toss the hardest to tech to dt's against as observers are so easy to get out...

i'm happy with dt's vs terrans for the moment, especially with zealot hiding their precense in the middle of the battle...