Zerg are ****ng underpowered

[dustinbrowder]

Actually Zerg is the strongest race if played right.
Those speedlings are really strong and cause all sorts of trouble for opposing player in his expansion/s.

Hydralisks are great against all units, except colossus and siege tanks.

Infestor is imba with its mind control

[Cotcan]

Hidden Content:

Don't give me crap, Zerg are ****ing underpowered as shit. I really like Zerg, yeah I really do. But all you do is play mechanical and if you don't play like Idra you lose. There's no good builds with zerg at all. All protoss does is wall in and 4gate. Great! Terran walls in? GREAT! No scouting for you! Meanwhile you hae to micro the shit out of your zerglings to prevent any scout to get into your base WHILE trying to mechanically setup a good macro.

Wtf is a zerg player to do? Fucking lamesauce strategies everywhere. No wonder Idra rages alot as a zerg player, we get fucked up the ass repeatedly.

Where the hell is our macro "ability"? Protoss get TWO macro abilities, chrono boost AND warp in? What the flying fuck were they thinking? How is warpin NOT overpowered? How is inject LARVA even CLOSE to chrono boost? Great, I get to inject larva, that's awesome. Terran get 2 solutions to their problems. Need minerals? GET A MULE, ooh supply blocked? DO SUPPLY DROP. Or crap you're getting attacked by invisible units? SCAN! All you need to do is nothing to save these things up. The ability recharges it self, all you need to do is think about using it properly.

But NOooo, Zerg? Your MILF of a Queen better be on that mofo with the V to the H. Otherwise you'll draw the shortstick when things get heavy.

So TOSS walls off and you have no idea wtf he's going to do. You see the 4 gates but he can easily transition to a fucking VOID RAY BULLSHIT because HE CAN. Yeah that's right. Want to scout? TOO BAD IT'S ME STALKER. 100 minerals and 8 food to see wtf he's building.

The only way to win with Zerg is to OUT PLAY THEM?? What kind of bullshit balance is this crap? I HAVE to expand with zerg??

And what the hell happened to swarm mentality? NEED MORE OVERLORDS, NEED MORE OVERLORDS. What the wtf?

All Dustin Browder did was nerf zerg 'cause OMFG THOSE KOREANS ARE TOO GOOD AT ZERG!

Well that's 'cause ALL KOREANS DO IS PLAY ZERG. You ever see a korean, ah forget a korean, have you ever seen an ASIAN NOT play zerg? (Yes sir I'm Asian and I play Zerg) Two of my friends are in Diamond league because they play ZERG. All they f'ing do is RUSH RUSH. Well that's just great!

How the hell is that fair? Marines are now pretty OP 'cause they all get into range PRETTY FAST. Zerglings melt like butter to marine fire. Oh btw, wanna get roach? TOO BAD IT'S ME MARAUDER! How about Mutalisk? Well these fuckers are 100/100 and costs requires a fucking 200/200 building to build. WTF am I supposed to do?

Zerg is probably the stupidest race in SC2. And great, we got nerfed like crazy. There was NOTHING wrong with roach. Ooh, players can't deal with mass roach. What the flying fuck? ROACH HAVE 3 RANGE. Mass ROACH means 90% of roach are just waiting in line to fight while the first 5 get killed.

And why the fuck was the game DESIGNED AROUND COUNTER ROACHES??? Marauders, counter roaches. Stalkers, counter roaches. Immortals, counter roaches. Zealots, OMFG Something I can actually deal with with INCREDIBLE ROACH MICRO otherwise THEY COUNTER ROACHES. Who even goes roaches now? NOBODY. Great, thanks blizzard for nerfing this unit out of the gameplay.

Now it's like Zergling Hydralisk bullshit. And god forbid they go siege tanks and marines. (See what I did thar? 12 years of game design and SC1 all over again) Except Hydalisks are now 100/75 and costs a FLIPPING TWO FOOD.

So it comes down to it, the ONLY matchup what's worth a damn is ZERG VERSUS ZERG. That's just great. 'Cause I can outplay THOSE people. Yeah, butt buddies.

I was platinum in Beta as Terran and now I'm stuck in Gold and losing game after game as Zerg. **** it, I'm going back to Terran. My ass can't handle Zerg. At least I was having fun as Terran.

Alright fine here's a more serious post.

Fact of the matter is Zerg is stupidly underpowered and stupidly overpowered. There is no middle ground. They've nerfed zerg just to make Ultralisk work, and now that they've added Frenzy to ultralisk, all the nerfs are still there.

For example, they nerfed burrow to fix roach's tunnelling claws. But then they made roaches 2 food, and didn't bother to fix the burrow nerf. Originally burrow is a great addition to zerg play and I loved the idea but with it's massive investment, it's only really useful for roach.

For Ultralisk, they nerfed the mind control so that you don't control ultralisks all the time, but then they made ultralisks unable to be mind controlled... so why not just put back mind control to it's previous setting?

I feel a lot of Zerg stuff is 1 step forward, 1 step back just to make one unit work while removing a lot of other strategies because they forgot to add them ideas back in.

I've won zerg games by complete domination or complete early rush. And I've lost them just as easily. Unlike Terran / Protoss games where there is fast back and forth between the two of us, Zerg feels like it's all in or bust.

Also, it annoys the heck out of me that Zerg have no +light or +armored damage units. HOw come all other races have this racial choice while zerg is left stuck with basic units? They should add +1 armored damage upgrade for lings just to see how it affects Ultralisks tank lines. There is a lot of stuff they can do to Zerg to make it a more multicolored race.

We'll see in the next big patch, I'm quite sure Zerg are going to get a huge amount of changes.

If this were all true, explain how idra won the King of the Beta Tournament.

[Corgon]

I think that to be really good with zerg, you have to be very technical, lots of micro, tons of macro, and always know what you are going to do. Zerg are also very powerful due to their transition time, it doesn't take a lot of time to switch from ground to air.

[Dread_Reaper]

If this were all true, explain how idra won the King of the Beta Tournament.

The simply fact of the matter is that the guy just outrushed his opponents most of the time, which you have to be REALLY GOOD TO DO CONSISTENTLY. Hell, I used to run a six pool rush most games, but not every player just walls off, so no rush. Which leaves us with... what?

Something occurred to me yesterday, when I took an army of 47 hydras and 32 lings and went toe to toe with a drastically outnumbered toss force of zealots, sentries, stalkers, and colossi, and although I lost all the lings and half the hydras, beat the tar out of this guy. I realized that if that army had contained the same amount of food in Terran form, not only would I have been stomped, but I also would not have killed hardly any units.

Ranting reputation aside, he is right. The Zerg are massively underpowered, and mostly its their basic design, but part of it is they removed integral units that allowed them to counter the Terran and replaced them with.... nothing? For instance, how the hell do you break a Siege Tank and Marine line without spawn broodlings?

Oh, and whoever said that expanding as the Terran is easy is completely off their rocker and should be exiled from placed where their voices may be heard. Its called Planetary Fortress, which turns your CC into a one man army. I saw it take on 23 lings yesterday. 23 FUCKING LINGS! Leaving a base undefended and having 23 lings march in used to mean death, but for a single cheap upgrade, you're okay! How the bloody hell does that make any sense?

And I will say this, although Idra won the beta as Zerg, he is by far not the same. In the beta I was gold and found almost no Zerg to fight. Since the game came out, I originally placed into bronze league and guess what: all Zerg. I fought my way into silver, and have found almost no Zerg, but mostly Terran. I guess is the higher I go, the more Terran I will find.

No, the game is going to change A LOT with this next patch. It just cannot come soon enough.

-Dread_Reaper

[Todie]

Something occurred to me yesterday, when I took an army of 47 hydras and 32 lings and went toe to toe with a drastically outnumbered toss force of zealots, sentries, stalkers, and colossi, and although I lost all the lings and half the hydras, beat the tar out of this guy. I realized that if that army had contained the same amount of food in Terran form, not only would I have been stomped, but I also would not have killed hardly any units.

protoss opponents may be easier to brake by brute force but even if a terran army may seem stronger right then and there, it has other weaknesses.

i say "brute force" because you mention taking down something containing sentry/stalker/colossi with hydra ling - head on (?)

i guess you mean that a terran force, including sieged tanks, would have ripped you up in a worse way.

the obvious differance is that such a terran army is signifcantly less mobile than the mentioned protoss counterpart. if it brakes formation or scatters, its suddenly quite manageable. - and you can force it to do this.

Ranting reputation aside, he is right. The Zerg are massively underpowered, and mostly its their basic design, but part of it is they removed integral units that allowed them to counter the Terran and replaced them with.... nothing? For instance, how the hell do you break a Siege Tank and Marine line without spawn broodlings?

brutforce it with enough roaches, or ultras leading the charge, pick away at it with broodlords (hi broodlings) and most importantly: contain it, circumvent it, suround it.

Oh, and whoever said that expanding as the Terran is easy is completely off their rocker and should be exiled from placed where their voices may be heard. Its called Planetary Fortress, which turns your CC into a one man army. I saw it take on 23 lings yesterday. 23 FUCKING LINGS! Leaving a base undefended and having 23 lings march in used to mean death, but for a single cheap upgrade, you're okay! How the bloody hell does that make any sense?

a PF costs 150 gas which is quite valuable. also it costs an infinite amount of OC-energy that translates into an infinite nubmer of mienrals. yes, PF is good sometimes. but it isnt broken. it cant be. PF can be taken out by roahc / hydra without too big of a fuss, also, it has nothing on air, and cant really stop competent infestor harassment either.

No, the game is going to change A LOT with this next patch. It just cannot come soon enough.

i play zerg. i would love some buffs. but i dont think it will happen; frankly i dont see a huge need for it.. mostly, anyone as stubborn about their interpretations of the state of the game is in for never ending disappointments when it comes to balance changes; the game is pretty much fine. start trying to understand why and how rather than making excuses.

[GnaReffotsirk]

What I personally dislike about the Zerg and its current design is inflexibility. Yes, inflexibility. Why or How, you say? Well, in a tight game, you will simply need mass amounts of a certain type of unit to equal or prevent damage which will have a huge impact when not handled or disposed of.

Terran feels more like a 1-2 race, with strong units in small numbers. This means you can reach critical mass of more unit types at 200/200 than Zerg. No idea on the Protoss side of things, but I think you guys can agree with me on this.

Meanwhile, Zerg will have to rely on two things to even the scales: One, would be to build up a significant number of a certain unit in order to meet the opponent's critical mass; Two is to have sufficient production and economic edge to compensate for the inevitable need to reproduce units during or after a skirmish somewhere in the map.

With this, I personally feel that the Zerg's task will have to rely on denying the opponent, and defending against sneak attacks at the same time.

The problem is that this could work if, and I say, IF the Zerg can actually mount a certain degree of advantage in the timings in order to ensure at least an econ rate that could handle the cost of reproducing an army.

I say there isn't enough of a benefit gained from spawn larva in terms of economy if one is to deal with military demands as well. In a tight fight or rushers and harass players, it's almost certain (considering a T-V match) that the terran player will have a boost in his resource graph over the Zerg.

This very important, for if the Zerg depended upon single massive volleys of disposable units, its economy/military ping-pong system will have to be able to fit into the equation so that it would actually enable Zerg to stand up against the other races.

I haven't seen the IdrA win yet, though.

[Wankey]

Don't worry Wankey, I knew it was a joke. I figured you wouldn't be whining about something other than SC2 sounds haha

But wait, so you make a thread, and people criticize it, then you say you were trolling, but then try and back up your 'troll' after all? :/
So is it still a joke?



I think that Terran and Protoss require far more 'cute' tactics to win. I think it's a huge mistake for so many reasons that some zerg in low leagues try ling rushing. Zerg need to rely on a bit of macro (inject larvae and good drone production essentially), but once you're ok at that, the zerg can be both very strategic and macro oriented: you can chose.

Finally someone with a sense of humor!

Haven't seen you online for a while.

Well I'm trying to turn it into a thread discussion about zerg.

[Gradius]

I think Zerg are actually overpowered, because I lost most of my games to them. What is a protoss supposed to do against mutalisks?!

Also, my favorite race, the protoss, need more buffs (1 step forward) instead of nerfs (1 step back).

[flak4321]

I think the Zerg macro mechanics are a little misunderstood. Sure, you have to choose economy vs. military with each larvae spawn, especially if you limit yourself to too few hatches and queens. This leads me to a small strategy change that I have been seeing in replays in increasing numbers, though still very few atm: build an extra hatch and queen specifically for military usage. This frees your your mining hatches and the nearest queens to econ more often. Most players are going 2-3 queens, but are not building that extra hatch.

That said, there are other reasons Zerg need help. Transitions are easier in terms of apm (new buildings and upgrades) plus unit costs, but I've seen quite a few Zerg players get beaten much too easily because their opponent is not affording them the time to mine to pay the costs, and to a greater extent than the Zerg player can return the favor. Idra is a very good example of this, in particular in his losses on Husky's and HD's channels. He tries to transition but it often is too little, too late. This would be helped immensely by my first strategic point, the extra hatch. The keys will be finding the time and sparing the resources to enable it.

I think Zerg are actually overpowered, because I lost most of my games to them. What is a protoss supposed to do against mutalisks?!

Also, my favorite race, the protoss, need more buffs (1 step forward) instead of nerfs (1 step back).

Good points both. In recent replays, players are using VR/Phoenix combos to some success. Others are using carriers. Stalkers seem to work as well. The keys to each are the numbers and macro battles.

[TheEconomist]

I'm not so sure Zerg are underpowered. I think they're just hard to play for some people and most of their units are not as "hard counter" as the other races. I myself have a hard time playing them in 1v1 but I've devoted most of my spare time to learning them and it's getting easier and easier.