Zerg are ****ng underpowered

[moosh]

Man i'm frustrated playing zerg as well. I've been thinking of switching to Terran as well.

[Wankey]

OK, maybe not necessarily "jump to conclusions too quickly", but definitely full of whine.
My favorite thread by you though:
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2620
Speed possibly too fast for good game casting?



then the thread dies and is necro'd and you say:
"The game speed is fine. It's as fast as Starcraft 1 actually. Going back to SC1, I don't find the game speed that much slower. Sc2 feels a lot faster because the units pathfind a lot better. "


Massive investment? 100/100 on a primary building that only has 2-3 upgrades anyway? Isnt it also useful for infestors (which are epic casters, but underused so far)? Isnt it also useful to protect units from harassment (again, underused) or for burrowed baneling mines or one of a million other uses that people just dont use yet because they arent familiar with the game?


Pretty sure you can mind control other units... like the colossus. It wasnt changed just for the ultralisk.


Thats probably just an attribute to the tier of play that you play at. High end zerg games see tons of back and forth (watch the king of the beta tournament for some wicked zerg games)


Why do you need them? Are zerg units themselves not unique and diverse enough that they should need the bonus damage? What purpose would it serve?

That is just absolutely bullshit. I asked a perfectly fine question "Speed possibly too fast for good game casting?" to incite discussion (keyword POSSIBLY). It turns out that the speed is fine for casting after months and months of playing and watching casting. Most likely we got used to it. What's the problem there? You're just nit picking at nothing.

The main reason for the mind control nerf was to prevent zerg players from completely mind controlling ultralisks (which in themselves are stupdly OP, so mind control was way too overpowered on ultralisks since it turned the fight around instantly) That was Dustin Browder's reason in the patch notes. Everyone was complaining about mind control's nerf later on. TL had a nice post about this actually.

Man i'm frustrated playing zerg as well. I've been thinking of switching to Terran as well.

You shuold. Gold players are dying to my Terran comeback, won the last 5 out of 6 games now. Time to hit Platinum

[Todie]

I feel like you can lean back and do your own thing to a greater extent with P & T than with zerg. but that doesnt mean zerg is inherently under or overpowered. with a strong enough game sense, we can prepare and effectively face any challenge, though an equally strong T or P will be able to put up a fair fight.

if we'll ever truly be able to, its surely too soon to call imbalance on anything in sc2. players that are sensitive about losing and not seriously prepared to keep on adapting their play and game sense to their experiences may have a slightly easier time playing terran or protoss. but in the end of the day, if your gonna stop and cry "game is broken" at the first sign of trouble, you wont ever truly improve, and you wont truly be able to enjoy the game. regardless of race.

dont expect major impending changes; that rarely happened even during beta.

play the game. dont let the game play you.

for the record, i played terran for most of beta and struggled to get into diamond. with zerg, i was impatient, and did worse. in retail im committed to zerg and feel fairly confident mid diamond, i honestly feel they will take me further than i could have gone with T.

peace.

[TheRabidDeer]

That is just absolutely bullshit. I asked a perfectly fine question "Speed possibly too fast for good game casting?" to incite discussion (keyword POSSIBLY). It turns out that the speed is fine for casting after months and months of playing and watching casting. Most likely we got used to it. What's the problem there? You're just nit picking at nothing.

I just found it entertaining, thus my favorite thread by you. Its easily possible for opinions to change as time goes on, but I just thought it was funny that at the beginning you claim its too fast then at the end say that SC1 may actually be faster.

The main reason for the mind control nerf was to prevent zerg players from completely mind controlling ultralisks (which in themselves are stupdly OP, so mind control was way too overpowered on ultralisks since it turned the fight around instantly) That was Dustin Browder's reason in the patch notes. Everyone was complaining about mind control's nerf later on. TL had a nice post about this actually.

"Infestor - Neural Parasite is now an upgrade at the Infestation Pit, research costs 150/150 and 110 seconds, can now target Air units, energy cost increased from 50 to 100.

The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. It is also consistent with what we think the power level of the ability is against Thor and other units. We have also buffed the ability to allow it to target air units so you can use it as a defense against Void Rays."

Exact quote from the situation report for that change. It was made because a base NP was overpowering and made units lackluster against zerg. Also, since they allowed you to NP air units it actually got a lot more useful since you can use it on medivacs.

Regardless of all that though, it was not changed just for ultralisks like I said before.

[Wankey]

I just found it entertaining, thus my favorite thread by you. Its easily possible for opinions to change as time goes on, but I just thought it was funny that at the beginning you claim its too fast then at the end say that SC1 may actually be faster.

Doesn't make much sense to pick that thread. I suggested to the community whether or not the game was too fast for casting. Some interesting discussion came afterwards.

After 5 months, the thread got necro'd, and I said after some testing that SC1 is as fast as SC2 in terms of unit movement, except SC2 feels faster due to better pathfinding.

Do you also realize that in 5 months we couldn't gotten used to the game speed?


The changes to Neural Parasite are there to try to protect the Ultralisk from being mind controlled too easily. It is also consistent with what we think the power level of the ability is against Thor and other units. We have also buffed the ability to allow it to target air units so you can use it as a defense against Void Rays."

Yeah right defend against void rays. 12 seconds isn't enough to defend against void rays. the fact of the matter is, it's obvious they nerfed it to deal with ultralisk. Played around with it and it seemed fair without actually doing too much play testing (had they give Frenzy to Ultralisk first, would NP still be nerfed?)

The fact that it was made a research isn't the problem. The fact that they added a timer and a 4 range decrease made it crappy.

[Hamshank]

Are they underpowered? Statistically very slightly. I think the elephant in the room here is how poorly the Zerg were designed comparative to the Protoss/Terrans.

For me they aren't fun and require cheap tactics to win.

[Wankey]

We can all hope for HotS to change things around.

[GRUNT]

Are they underpowered? Statistically very slightly. I think the elephant in the room here is how poorly the Zerg were designed comparative to the Protoss/Terrans.

For me they aren't fun and require cheap tactics to win.

That's where you're wrong, Hamshank! Dun dun duuuuun!

It is in fact the Terrans who require cheap tactics to win! Their entire unit roster is built around the concept of stuffing it full of as many units that are capable of extreme annoyance as possible .

Terrans have so many cheap units that their strategies can't even be called cheap - that's just the way Terran is in SC2 .

Zerg, on the other hand, are a PROPER race! We don't need to do Siege Tank drops on ridges, or Hellion harassing, Zerg generally win 'cleanly'. Good honest macro and mechanics!

I don't think Zerg are poorly designed at all - they just have a pretty different playstyle. They're also much harder to use well, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're unbalanced.

I really do find Zerg fun to play - they feel the most heavy-handed of the three factions. When played by the best, Zerg generally just win through brute force of economy and macro. It's quite a sight :]. Sure it sucks that I'm not good enough to play like Idra, but it's also reassuring to know that the game still has many tiers of skill.

[Hammy]

Don't worry Wankey, I knew it was a joke. I figured you wouldn't be whining about something other than SC2 sounds haha

But wait, so you make a thread, and people criticize it, then you say you were trolling, but then try and back up your 'troll' after all? :/
So is it still a joke?

For me they aren't fun and require cheap tactics to win.

I think that Terran and Protoss require far more 'cute' tactics to win. I think it's a huge mistake for so many reasons that some zerg in low leagues try ling rushing. Zerg need to rely on a bit of macro (inject larvae and good drone production essentially), but once you're ok at that, the zerg can be both very strategic and macro oriented: you can chose.

[Blazur]

People have been saying that for quite some time now. I don't know enough about the game to claim imbalance, but I can certainly state that the Zerg are personally very boring for me to play. Not enough diversity in unit composition and strategy to keep me entertained.