Unused Cinematic Clips.

[Dalarsco]

I was being sarcastic. She was basically all emo-fatalism in the game, so I was just making fun of that



So it was...commerical lying?

So are you DS's sockpuppet? This whole obsession with "lying" thing is his shtick. They never said "these exact shots appear in the game". Isn't it entirely possible that the entire thing was animated specifically for that video? In that case, isn't it better that they didn't reuse part of the Prophesy fight? Everything else is completely generic. Think the WoW and TFT intro cinematics.

[broodmywarcraft]

So are you DS's sockpuppet? This whole obsession with "lying" thing is his shtick. They never said "these exact shots appear in the game". Isn't it entirely possible that the entire thing was animated specifically for that video? In that case, isn't it better that they didn't reuse part of the Prophesy fight? Everything else is completely generic. Think the WoW and TFT intro cinematics.

Well, first of all. TFT cinematic help flesh out the story, it was in the game...don't know where you're going with that.

But WoW is completely different it's not a single player story. The intros are just there to show off the characters in Pre-rendered form cause...Blizzard has to show off at least one pre-rendered cinematic per game...

And I am no man's sockpuppet...though i do have sock...that I put...on my foot... xD

[TheEconomist]

I'm going to go with "Blizzard settled instead of tried harder."

They spent a year plus on a cinematic with a relatively huge and award-winning team. Do you really want them to spend two years and either double the development time or have less cinematics?

Also, I've always assumed from the beginning that those were artwork turned into cinematic during early development. Almost all of those shots have artwork to go with them. They were probably made just for that cinematic.

[BusinessMonkey]

I was there when they announced it, and that's not what they said. What they actually said was that they kept wanting to tell more stories, add more characters, go deeper into the world of StarCraft, but that required more than 10 missions to get in all they wanted. So they gave themselves a budget of 30 missions per race, so they could get everything they wanted in the game.

Yes, but as I've pointed out several times, all these different additions, don't help the player delve into the game, but just end up keeping it too superficial, since all the details go in too many directions.
This counts also plotwise. There are too many MAIN plots. Normally you have just 1 or max 2 MAIN plots and then some subplots. In SC2 we constantly jump from main plot to main plot, and the subplots never get finished properly.

Jesus Christ; how many times does this need to be said? WHEN THAT CINEMATIC WAS MADE, TYCHUS FINLEY WAS NOT A CHARACTER!

Ah, ok, so I have to see the Behind The Scenes DVD in order be able to enjoy the story in the game itself? No way! Tychus is presented as the most important character after Raynor in that cinematic, and having to find out somehow that "that wan't the idea once" is supposed to make it ok, that this presentation in the cinematic is not followed through during the entire campaign??? Jeez...

But he is the most important non-Raynor character in the main storyline. And he even has some significant presence in other storylines (he pilots the Odin).

Piloting the Odin, and being presented with a huge inner struggle about either working for Arcturus or sacrifying himself is not really very easy to connect. Piloting the Odin is just a gimmick. Tychus is BIG, therefore it's fun to put him in the biggest unit... It's NOTHING plotwise.

It's supposed to focus on Kerrigan; it's her cinematic. You're not supposed to be feeling Raynor's frustration. Remember: this is Jim's nightmare. He's not reliving what it's like to sit on a ship and yell at Mengsk; he's reliving what Kerrigan must have gone through.

If it's Raynor's nightmare, howcome you say we're not supposed to feel what HE feels? You've showing my point exactly, that the focus in the cinematics is weak. How many goddamn MAIN characters do we want? If you set a story about RAYNOR going against Mengsk, why the hell do you end it with it being a story about Kerrigan's redemption? Keep the focus, I say.

There's a word for that: cliffhanger. If everything were resolved, there wouldn't be a need for the next game, would there? Finding out what Kerrigan is going to be like is now 80% of the reason to buy the next game.

It provides a thematic resolution. Kerrigan is "back", to some definition of that word. Raynor has thwarted Mengsk's plan to kill her. And the hero gets the girl.

So what happened to the "making the episodes stand-alones" part? Blizz wanted to make WoL feel like a complete game in itself. Do I need to say more?

It had a different purpose. The end of Reign of Chaos was the climactic end of an entire series of plots, starting with the very first WC game. The end of WoL was just the end of one part of the story of SC2.

Yet, Frozen Throne came afterwards... Arthas was still alive, a lot of aspects were still there, yet the ending felt like a freakin' ending. It doesn't in WoL. That's my point. The comparison I make is valid.

But they don't involve people who matter. Who cares about some random grunts getting killed, or some random yokles running into a patch of Zerg? The plot has already established these things: yes, there are Zerg around. The fact that I was shooting at some in the earlier missions gave it away.

So cinematics are only allowed to revolve around central characters? It's a war here. Elements of that can perfectly be shown in that. What, you'd rather want constant cinematics of the Overmind just "being" somewhere with it's cerebrates? No, they coped pretty well to show what the Zerg are, by showing how the little terran is crushed by them. Same with some of the Protoss scenes. You get to see how the RACE kicks ass, instead of it ALWAYS
being the superhero.

Well, since your arguments that the pre-rendered ones aren't any good don't hold up, this statement doesn't follow. But more importantly, you have failed to show that any of the alleged lack of quality in the prerendered cinematics is directly or indirectly caused by the in-game cinematics. In short: causation from correlation.

It's more the process itself that caused it. If you say, "ok, let's make these 4 pre-rendered that will each talk about a main character" (already here it's wrong since those few cinematics should keep focus on the main plot, especially since they have the possibility to show it in greater detail, not focus on a lot of different characters. Again the focus is lost.)
Then you say "ok, the in-game ones will revolve around what happens in general in the Hyperion" and as I said they did it good, but ther is very little to connect the in game with the prerendered ones. that's always been my point, so when you start out with Tychus, get to see alot of in-game cinematics about what happens in the Hyperion, when the next cinematic shows the Flashback, tychus has NOTHINH to do with this, and it's not even about Raynor, but focuses heavily on Kerrigan, even though she hasn't been properly introduced yet.

...this example is growing too big, yet i hope you can see my point. The connections between the two kind are too weak. Only the Zeratul cinematics connect well, the only problem there is that they YET AGAIN take focus away from the main plot. Would've been better to have the protoss mini-campaign as the SC2 demo in my opinion...

It seems to me that they had a pretty strong, reasonable delineation between the two kinds of cinematics. They used prerendered cutscenes for the really important moments that need the detail. And for everything else, they used in-game cinematics.

As I've already said just before this quote, these details aren't from the same plot, and doesn't focus on the main plot, so what they end up doing is just confusing in many ways. Not the cinematics themselves when you watch them, they do look cool, but when you give it a thought of "where are we heading now?" they only take you to other places with other details than the ones needed for the main plot to be connected.

[unentschieden]

Yes, but as I've pointed out several times, all these different additions, don't help the player delve into the game, but just end up keeping it too superficial, since all the details go in too many directions.
This counts also plotwise. There are too many MAIN plots. Normally you have just 1 or max 2 MAIN plots and then some subplots. In SC2 we constantly jump from main plot to main plot, and the subplots never get finished properly.

There is 1 main plot, Raynor dealingwith his guilt over Kerrigan. The Kerrigan mainplot is followed in the Artifact missions, they are the ones where we meet Kerrigan and get the flashbacks about her character ("Ghosts of the Past" is after Moebius Factor where Kerrigan appears the first time "in person"). It´s also the plotstring with the "charactershifts", it´s the ones where Raynor starts drinking and his Crew almost starts a mutiny for allying with the Dominion.

Tosh and Hanson are pure subquests, each are "only" 3 Missions. They provide good character development for Raynor and reinforce it by giving the choice to the resolution to the Player (cleverly adjusting the premisses to make them not contradictionary to the rest of the campaign) . For them being optional and plotirrelevant was the right choice.

The Protoss missions shouldn´t have been where they are they just are out of place. In tone, narrative, plot and storydevelopment they fit ideally into a Protoss campaign but in the middle of the Terran campaign it´s just out of place. Think about it, the "big bad" is otherwise VERY subtily foreshadowed, for one with the "Narud" character and a bit more in the Secret Mission.

The biggest problem is that they made the "Rebellion" plot optional. That meant they had to give it the "sidequest" treatment. That is a big issue since it handles a major Plot, the rebellion against Mengsk. They couldn´t give it a proper resolution which feels unsatisfiying.

Ah, ok, so I have to see the Behind The Scenes DVD in order be able to enjoy the story in the game itself? No way! Tychus is presented as the most important character after Raynor in that cinematic, and having to find out somehow that "that wan't the idea once" is supposed to make it ok, that this presentation in the cinematic is not followed through during the entire campaign??? Jeez...

The intro is vital because Tychuses release is the event that triggest the whole artifact hunt which is the core of the Campaign.

Piloting the Odin, and being presented with a huge inner struggle about either working for Arcturus or sacrifying himself is not really very easy to connect. Piloting the Odin is just a gimmick. Tychus is BIG, therefore it's fun to put him in the biggest unit... It's NOTHING plotwise.

Tychus indeed isn´t important for piloting the Odin, he is important for being Raynors best Friend. Raynor trusts him to go into the Odin, that is the real significance, not that he is a skilled pilot.

If it's Raynor's nightmare, howcome you say we're not supposed to feel what HE feels? You've showing my point exactly, that the focus in the cinematics is weak. How many goddamn MAIN characters do we want? If you set a story about RAYNOR going against Mengsk, why the hell do you end it with it being a story about Kerrigan's redemption? Keep the focus, I say.

It´s not alone about being Raynor having nightmares, it´s also about having a flashback to the pivotal event in Raynors, Mengsks and Kerrigans characters.
As I said before Raynor against Mengsk could have been developed better, but Raynor/Kerrigan being the main Focus was the right desicion. If only because it keeps the Zerg and Protoss from being sidefigures like they had been in the original Terran campaign.

So what happened to the "making the episodes stand-alones" part? Blizz wanted to make WoL feel like a complete game in itself. Do I need to say more?

It´s a complete game. It´s not a complete story.

Yet, Frozen Throne came afterwards... Arthas was still alive, a lot of aspects were still there, yet the ending felt like a freakin' ending. It doesn't in WoL. That's my point. The comparison I make is valid.

No, WC3 also had a big "aren´t we forgetting something?" tint. The end resolved a lot but they were VERY clearly setting up an expansion.

So cinematics are only allowed to revolve around central characters? It's a war here. Elements of that can perfectly be shown in that. What, you'd rather want constant cinematics of the Overmind just "being" somewhere with it's cerebrates? No, they coped pretty well to show what the Zerg are, by showing how the little terran is crushed by them. Same with some of the Protoss scenes. You get to see how the RACE kicks ass, instead of it ALWAYS
being the superhero.

I don´t need cinematics to see faceless minions slaughter each other, the gameplay does that VERY well. Prerendered or in-engine is essentially just a question of quality. They should use their high quality exposition on IMPORTANT scenes in the story.

It's more the process itself that caused it. If you say, "ok, let's make these 4 pre-rendered that will each talk about a main character" (already here it's wrong since those few cinematics should keep focus on the main plot, especially since they have the possibility to show it in greater detail, not focus on a lot of different characters. Again the focus is lost.)
Then you say "ok, the in-game ones will revolve around what happens in general in the Hyperion" and as I said they did it good, but ther is very little to connect the in game with the prerendered ones. that's always been my point, so when you start out with Tychus, get to see alot of in-game cinematics about what happens in the Hyperion, when the next cinematic shows the Flashback, tychus has NOTHINH to do with this, and it's not even about Raynor, but focuses heavily on Kerrigan, even though she hasn't been properly introduced yet.

...this example is growing too big, yet i hope you can see my point. The connections between the two kind are too weak. Only the Zeratul cinematics connect well, the only problem there is that they YET AGAIN take focus away from the main plot. Would've been better to have the protoss mini-campaign as the SC2 demo in my opinion...

The Zeratul scenes are important to the overaching main plotline of SC2 over all three campaigns. It doesn´t connect because that plotline is merely hinted at yet.

[gwoodkid]

I was also really disappointed when I didn't see a great deal of the concept art implemented in any way in the game, especially the work done for Zeratul holding a dying Raszagal. And remember the Xel'Naga cavern art, with the figures in the ceiling all reaching for what may or may not have been a 'Naga? You see the same archway in "The Prophecy", but all that beautiful detail in the figures isn't show in the slightest!

I was disappointed too. But let's just hope we would be surprised again in the last expansion of SC2 trilogy.

[Nicol Bolas]

Unentschieden said most of what I was going to, but I wanted to answer a couple of things.

It's more the process itself that caused it. If you say, "ok, let's make these 4 pre-rendered that will each talk about a main character" (already here it's wrong since those few cinematics should keep focus on the main plot, especially since they have the possibility to show it in greater detail, not focus on a lot of different characters. Again the focus is lost.)

The main plot of WoL is not overthrowing Mengsk. After all, overthrowing Mengsk doesn't actually happen. The main plot of WoL is dealing with Kerrigan, which does happen. This is the plotline with the artifacts, the one you can't skip no matter what.

All of the pre-rendered cinematics ultimately deal with this plot. The Tychus cinematic shows that he's being released for a purpose. This is the event that starts the plot. The Zeratul/Kerrigan cinematic is all about Zeratul finding out about the prophecy and why Kerrigan cannot be killed. The New Gettysburg cinematic is all about who Kerrigan was and why she has become what she has. And the finale is the bookend to the intro: it's all about Raynor and Tychus, fighting over Kerrigan.

One of the big storyline problems of SC2 is how the transition happens between being about Raynor vs. Mengsk to being about Raynor vs. Kerrigan; your confusion about what is the storyline of WoL is a testament to that. The cinematics when Kerrigan starts attacking makes it seem like she's overrunning the Dominion entirely, that there's a clearly ticking clock. But nothing after that pays off.

You never get the feeling that the Zerg invasion matters all that much. Oh, you get the Hanson missions which shows off some of the ramifications of it, but even there you never really feel like anything has actually happened. The Zerg invasion doesn't seem to change anything. And since the invasion is where the non-linear mission structure starts, it's very easy for the player to "lose the plot" so to speak.

[Pandonetho]

The main plot of WoL is not overthrowing Mengsk. After all, overthrowing Mengsk doesn't actually happen. The main plot of WoL is dealing with Kerrigan, which does happen. This is the plotline with the artifacts, the one you can't skip no matter what.

This is what annoyed me because while the main plot was about overthrowing Kerrigan many missions were against the Dominion and it felt like Kerrigan wasn't even an antagonist, especially seeing as how she hardly even put up a fight.

[hyde]

Jesus would've been cool if they just had a pre render or in game cinematic of Battle Cruisers battle'ing it out when Raynor boarded Valerian's Battle Cruiser.

Pretty cheap when 4 BC"s warp in, you just magically get on board with no problem. Take out Valerians Royal Guard with Raynor+Tychus.
Rigghhttt....even though it was "planned"...like come on...the whole scene/transisitions felt poorly made and cut RIGHT to the chase.

Back on topic. Most likely cancelled or scrapped bits of rendering. Probably early footage and they just needed "something" to show fans.

[broodmywarcraft]

Jesus would've been cool if they just had a pre render or in game cinematic of Battle Cruisers battle'ing it out when Raynor boarded Valerian's Battle Cruiser.

Pretty cheap when 4 BC"s warp in, you just magically get on board with no problem. Take out Valerians Royal Guard with Raynor+Tychus.
Rigghhttt....even though it was "planned"...like come on...the whole scene/transisitions felt poorly made and cut RIGHT to the chase.

Back on topic. Most likely cancelled or scrapped bits of rendering. Probably early footage and they just needed "something" to show fans.

You notice how the Zeratul/Kerrigan cinematic has the same problem.
"You're presence defies this place Kerrigan"

"Do you hear them Zeratul..."

God damn, when you see this, you noticed how cut to the chase it was a.k.a. bad transition.