Mutalisk and tanks changes

[Twilice]

Are you really correct? I have seen marauders have a kind of smart shooting. (they don't shoot at the same time)

[TheRabidDeer]

Are you really correct? I have seen marauders have a kind of smart shooting. (they don't shoot at the same time)

Positive, if they dont shoot they are probably out of range or still on their attack cooldown.

It is always easier to demonstrate with a video though, so here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIDixqI0ycU

[Hammy]

Any unit that doesnt have travel time for their weapon has smart shooting. Marauders dont have smart shooting for example, as their grenade has a travel time.

Tanks are just a lot better in SC2 for a lot of reasons.

1st: They deal full damage to everything
2nd: Smart shooting
3rd: Units tend to cluster into a ball instead of travel in a line, which makes their splash that much more painful

I am not looking forward to the days of terran slow pushing with clusters of tank/marine/viking (and maybe some raven auto turret annoying harassment). It has to be coming soon (jinro has done some slow pushing, but he generally leapfrogs and doesnt cluster tanks).

Oh yeah I hadn't thought about the whole projectile business. Good call.

I'm not too worried about the whole tank business though... my only concern is that it's a boring mechanic. I would love to see some elegant counters that involve using a handful of well positioned units to counter tanks rather than just brute-forcing them, but with smart-shooting that seems unlikely.
Otherwise, tanks are totally balanced to me, especially since they've seen their damage nerfed to 50.

[userstupidname]

Please elaborate on good positioned units
If you mean spreading out a huge army I don't think thats feasible


I personally and simplistically see it like this

There is less micro (What you do with units) counters now
But we still got many macro (What units you get) counters
making for a lesser spectator game

Look at around 5:55-6:02

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSLU_SCqzr0








Ps.

Now it might seem retarded why I described micro and macro in a simplistic form but that is just to avoid confusion

[Hammy]

The most remarkable example of what I'm refering to is using SCVs to "bait" hits, while your army gets into position. While an army is usually inherently clumped, these SCVs could be sent out in a way to maximize the damage they take from tank fire (or they could just be spammed). With so much more efficiency, these low-hp units just get obliterated, and all of the tanks haven't even shot yet.

An example I had to dig out^^ Go straight to 8:00 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viXWL...layer_embedded

I'm sure you could find plenty of games where just one or two SCVs were used for maximum efficiency, but this game just came to mind because of its awesomeness.

[userstupidname]

Ye and this works great in sc1 but not in sc2 with smart shooting (Or is it me being completely wrong where you stand on this?? xD )

Now it works in sc2 of course but is very less effective as instead of everyone only 1-2 tanks will shoot the scv.

[Hammy]

Yes that's my point.
Another tactic rendered inefficient is using burrowed/dropped units to use a tank's splash damage against the opponent.

[MulletBen]

But you can't compare things like "Yeah they implemented this, so they are stronger, but they lowered their damage so they are ok now"...
I mean, they lowered their damage, because unlike in SC1, they do 50 Damage to ALL kinds of units, so they are much much stronger than SC1 Tanks vs. Small units, especially since Splash is much better and little worse vs. big, armored units. And things like Drop, and Zealots with Charge still works, you just need to have greater numbers of them and not clumps together, which of course is hard.

Here's the thing: in my personal opinion, siege tanks are not overpowered. They are quite difficult to deal with, but they aren't the end of the world.

As for the Question of muta and siege tank micro, I would love it if this sort of micro was still in the game. On the other hand, they would have to balance these mechanics in and of themselves; if the only way to counter tanks was to send units out to waste their shots, you'd have problems at lower levels.

If mutas became imbalanced by adding a higher skill cap to their micro, changing the stats of the unit would make it imbalanced at lower levels. As far as protoss goes, they can use their leet phoenix skills, but considering that terran's best counter for mutas is a slow moving hunk of resources, it seems this would quickly become overpowered. Then again, Thors have ridiculous range and splash damage, so they might be the perfect counter to this sort of micro.

[GnaReffotsirk]

I say add +3 seconds to the tank's mode changing, at least.

[phazonjunkie]

Regarding Tanks no longer overkilling, I personally believe it was a change for the better.
As someone pointed out earlier, in SC1, siege lines were extremely hard to break; taking advantage of their tendency to overkill was one of the few ground-based ways of doing so. In SC2 'siege breaking' appears to be a little easier overall because there are more 'intuitive' ways of going about it.