Professional StarCraft 2 WoL after beta GPU review

[TheEconomist]

It's not debatable. It is a verified scientific fact that the eye cannot see such a minor difference.

http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

If you know what AA is then you know that since there are pretty much no jaggies (you have to zoom in to tell) at 1920x1200 with 2xAA or 4xAA then by that very definition 16xAA doesn't matter because there's nothing to smooth. Now, these screenshots are of Crysis with all kinds of high polygon models and trees. We're talking about StarCraft 2 here which is low polygon and at easy angles to represent on a graph. Plus, in order to display at the highest quality possible, you're going to need a ridiculously expensive monitor and you're still not going to notice the difference. You have to waste money just to justify your waste of money.

I have screenshots ready and I've been looking at them. Even knowing which ones have the highest AA, I can't tell a difference.

Let me know when you're ready mikill and I will give you two minutes to make your choices. After you've chosen wrongly, I will show you the method used to tell AA that people use to critique console bullshots.

@spychi: I don't want to get back into this but if you do then just know that this will be the third time you've argued with me about computers and been wrong.

[hyde]

It's not debatable. It is a verified scientific fact that the eye cannot see such a minor difference.

http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

If you know what AA is then you know that since there are pretty much no jaggies (you have to zoom in to tell) at 1920x1200 with 2xAA or 4xAA then by that very definition 16xAA doesn't matter because there's nothing to smooth. Now, these screenshots are of Crysis with all kinds of high polygon models and trees. We're talking about StarCraft 2 here which is low polygon and at easy angles to represent on a graph. Plus, in order to display at the highest quality possible, you're going to need a ridiculously expensive monitor and you're still not going to notice the difference. You have to waste money just to justify your waste of money.

I have screenshots ready and I've been looking at them. Even knowing which ones have the highest AA, I can't tell a difference.

Let me know when you're ready mikill and I will give you two minutes to make your choices. After you've chosen wrongly, I will show you the method used to tell AA that people use to critique console bullshots.

@spychi: I don't want to get back into this but if you do then just know that this will be the third time you've argued with me about computers and been wrong.

Tychus speaks the truth.
I'm a FPS freak at heart and seriously there's no difference in AA if you have a small monitor, because your native res is so small.

Most FPS Games do not even go past 8X FSAA or they use MSAA or whatever...where only partial parts are AA'd..

This is what Tychus is talking about, imagine if your monitor is small..



Can you guys even see the difference from #2 and #3? I can , after looking at it really hard. So it's pointless. Sure you'll make it out if you "blew up" the picture..but that just proves Tychus's point.


And yeah..it's just starcraft 2, the engine was dated when the game was premeired...it's nothing close to...



There's no foliage, wirelines, towers, sharp structures in SC2. Aliasing occurs in SC2, no doubt , but it's minimal and only on certain parts of units/structures. Not really noticable until you stare at a screen shot...at least for me anyways.

I'm just trying to warn you guys, because I paid 500$USD for an ATI Radeon 9800 PRO just so I could play CS 1.6 and WC3 on max settings . Biggest waste evar.

[TheEconomist]

I appreciate that hyde but I took some screenshots to prove my point but now I fear mikill will run away

[Xyvik]

If possible, go nVidia.

You have a 5770 and yet you recommend people to go nVidia?

That's the exact opposite of what I recommend. Right now there's no better deals than ATi cards (and AMD cpus, the AM3 platform is killer for performance if you're on a budget) and the small performance boost you get from a GeForce 480 comes with a heavy load on power (which means you spend more for a bigger power supply, plus more money on your electric bill) and heat (which means you need a bigger case and more fans, which means more money for case and more money on electric bill).

5770 is more than enough for SC2 and is a great card period. It's my number one recommendation right now.

[FoxSpirit]

*screenshots with loads of bad info*

Are those screenshots at native zoom-level and resolution? No.
Scaling down an image adds natural anti-aliasing, that's the sole principle of Super Sampling.

And full-on MSAA with TSAA on WC3 makes a lot of difference, such a smooth image

Tyhcus, you quote that article but did you understand it?
The article says the human eyes resolution is at least 530ppi, and the author conducted blind test with people who sorted between prints up to 600ppi and nobody so far failed.

Now, the iPhone 4 has a 326ppi display, which, viewed from some distance, appears perfectly sharp. No single pixel can be discerned. This is the point where anti-aliasing is not needed anymore.

But here I sit in front of my 1680x1050 22" monitor, writing this text, using a non-cleartype sharp font and can see every single pixel-edge. At that point, Anti-Aliasing still has a big benefit.

Sure you won't really notice it in the pinch of getting all your larvas spawned and your forced organised but when you have some time, namely in single-player and replays, you really notice. And then it's very nice when things looks smooth as butter

[Gradius]

You have a 5770 and yet you recommend people to go nVidia?

That's the exact opposite of what I recommend. Right now there's no better deals than ATi cards (and AMD cpus, the AM3 platform is killer for performance if you're on a budget) and the small performance boost you get from a GeForce 480 comes with a heavy load on power (which means you spend more for a bigger power supply, plus more money on your electric bill) and heat (which means you need a bigger case and more fans, which means more money for case and more money on electric bill).

5770 is more than enough for SC2 and is a great card period. It's my number one recommendation right now.

What's wrong with the GTX 460? It outperforms and costs 80 dollars less than the 5850. Also, I read that NVidia cards are the only ones that offer AA period right now for SC2 (and do a better job at it).

[mikill]

It's not debatable. It is a verified scientific fact that the eye cannot see such a minor difference.

http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

If you know what AA is then you know that since there are pretty much no jaggies (you have to zoom in to tell) at 1920x1200 with 2xAA or 4xAA then by that very definition 16xAA doesn't matter because there's nothing to smooth. Now, these screenshots are of Crysis with all kinds of high polygon models and trees. We're talking about StarCraft 2 here which is low polygon and at easy angles to represent on a graph. Plus, in order to display at the highest quality possible, you're going to need a ridiculously expensive monitor and you're still not going to notice the difference. You have to waste money just to justify your waste of money.

I have screenshots ready and I've been looking at them. Even knowing which ones have the highest AA, I can't tell a difference.

Let me know when you're ready mikill and I will give you two minutes to make your choices. After you've chosen wrongly, I will show you the method used to tell AA that people use to critique console bullshots.

There is no relation in that article to AA. You say that starcraft 2 is dated that may be but that doesn't mean legacy of the void is going to be the same as wings of liberty when it goes down to graphics. Plus I didn't specify SC2 I was talking games as a whole. Secondly you did not back up your answer to my question in pictures your just talking trying to scare me or even perhaps dare me to. Yes you can tell the difference between 2xAA and no AA, and you can tell the difference in the setting of your AA. My money is my own concern, you don't know what equipment I use in or for my computer system.

Tychus speaks the truth.
I'm a FPS freak at heart and seriously there's no difference in AA if you have a small monitor, because your native res is so small.

Most FPS Games do not even go past 8X FSAA or they use MSAA or whatever...where only partial parts are AA'd..

This is what Tychus is talking about, imagine if your monitor is small..



Can you guys even see the difference from #2 and #3? I can , after looking at it really hard. So it's pointless. Sure you'll make it out if you "blew up" the picture..but that just proves Tychus's point.


And yeah..it's just starcraft 2, the engine was dated when the game was premeired...it's nothing close to...

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 1121x770 and weights 384KB.


There's no foliage, wirelines, towers, sharp structures in SC2. Aliasing occurs in SC2, no doubt , but it's minimal and only on certain parts of units/structures. Not really noticable until you stare at a screen shot...at least for me anyways.

I'm just trying to warn you guys, because I paid 500$USD for an ATI Radeon 9800 PRO just so I could play CS 1.6 and WC3 on max settings . Biggest waste evar.

Yes you can tell the difference when you have a regular sized image that image you posted is way too small to see and to compare. And no Tychus clearly said on a 1920x 1200 res image and yes you can tell the difference. I see the AA difference in SC2 and when I get the game I will show you. I am not try to mislead people this is a straight up AA battle with me against Tychus.

Sure you won't really notice it in the pinch of getting all your larvas spawned and your forced organised but when you have some time, namely in single-player and replays, you really notice. And then it's very nice when things looks smooth as butter

Foxspirit has the idea you won't really notice it but there is a definate difference when it comes to different segiments in the game like cutscenes and replays which are a part of the game.

What's wrong with the GTX 460? It outperforms and costs 80 dollars less than the 5850. Also, I read that NVidia cards are the only ones that offer AA period right now for SC2 (and do a better job at it).

Basically instead of taking 1 step ATI took 2 while Nvidia only took one step. The newest ATI models they don't even compare because it is so top of the line. Also notice that 5850 is 1-2 years old than the 460 which was just released this year, you should compare the GTX 460 to the ATI HD 5970.

[spychi]

when i will get back from the sea, i will show you guys two screenshots from Dawn of War II that will blow your theories

[FoxSpirit]

Basically instead of taking 1 step ATI took 2 while Nvidia only took one step. The newest ATI models they don't even compare because it is so top of the line. Also notice that 5850 is 1-2 years old than the 460 which was just released this year, you should compare the GTX 460 to the ATI HD 5970.

What??? The GTX460 is not the "top of the line" card, it's the "King of the budget cards" card. And there it really shines. Great speed, great price, low heat and power draw. It's a fantastic little card.

when i will get back from the sea, i will show you guys two screenshots from Dawn of War II that will blow your theories

DoW2 is one game that really needs AA.

[protoswarrior]

Wow. lol! You guys are waaay too meticulous about these things. I have a 1360x768 native resolution TV where I play games like Crysis and Mass Effect 2, and in very RARE occasions do jagged lines appear distinct from the whole picture. I never notice it 99% of the time. I never enable AA on any of my games since I don't see the need to. And, of course I get nicer fps that way

But man, are you guys intense about this. And I only have a DX10.1 (?) card

Do you guys play with magnifying glasses or something?