Do you think StarCraft II is ready?

[mugmug]

I am just not satisfied with the multiplayer mode.

[Maelstorm]

Agree that 0mars post was a very good view of the balance issue as for the topic about blizzard release as you can imagine getting a game's servers to handle most likely millions of people logging on without a single bug or crash is highly unlikely so hope for the best and prepare to rage if something goes wrong hehe

[Norfindel]

Balancing at silver is impossible because people's mechanics just aren't very good. You don't know if it's imbalance or just a mechanics issue. The only issue is making the game fun for everyone. Balance should only occur for those at the highest levels of play.

For example, when I first started playing SC/BW, I thought the ONLY strategy was to make 3 barracks, two engy bays, academy and get full upgrades before going onto factory. My own ineptitude blinded me to how bad I was playing, yet I thought this was the most ideal build order possible. It took several major losses for me to realize that this build order is not exactly ideal (understatement). This is why you can't balance for gold/silver/bronze; those players are simply playing a different game than top players. And, truth be told, top players all are very similar to each other with respect to mechanics. It's only here that balance issues arise. If a certain strategy takes far more resources to counter adequately than it takes to execute, it'll become apparent at the top level.

Take a void ray rush. A low level player may not scout, have a bad build order and never prepares for a void ray rush. When the void ray comes and demolishes his base, is it because of imbalance or because of the player? Now if a top player, who does scout and can prepare for that same strategy, cannot beat that rush, then it's imbalanced. The only real criteria for lower levels is that the game is fun and enjoyable. Balance issues at the low level will be self-correcting by virtue of an improving player base.

You're forgetting that the Terran player is also Silver, but he has a far easier time, and that there isn't any problems with the other two matchups.
If it works in Diamond but not in Silver that means that PvT requires more skill in the P side to be effective.

That the problems can be circumvented by heavy micro/macro in the Protoss side doesn't means that everything is ok in the lower leagues. Everyone deserves to play a fun, balanced game at all skill levels.

With P, you can get a Probe inside the Terran base before he closes the door, but that Probe is going to be killed sooner or later. Then, the T player can scan the P base to see what's happening inside, while the P player needs to wait for Observers, air units, or Hallucinations to see what's happening.

A T player can get Reactors to build Marines at twice the speed, and has queues, while a P player must get Warp-in ASAP, and use it constantly, because units from Gateways will get out too slowly.

Tanks in high positions and Planetary Fortress completely deny an attack. It's suicide to attack Tanks in siege mode with some support, no matter what kind of ground army you have. Slow and the amount of HP and firepower of a Marauder doesn't helps.

I don't doubt that things get much better in Diamond, when the player has very good macro and micro, but you cannot ask that from players in the lower leagues on one side of a matchup, it's just not fair. Otherwise, it's a "get better or get lost mentality", and it's not the idea of online gameplay, otherwise, the matchmaker wouldn't even exist, and everything will be like in SC1, when any new player gets destroyed online, and either gets training, or doesn't plays anymore.

[//MavericK\\]

It's ready. It's coming. It has already been manufactured. We had this thread a week ago. It was something like 90% of SC2 fans will tell you the game is ready. Bnet will likely improve overtime.


...thats all.

this...

/thread.

[Noctis]

Blizzard said that they look at the top players data AND the data from bronze

Basically they don't only rely on data from that top 1%

[Zabimaru]

You're forgetting that the Terran player is also Silver, but he has a far easier time, and that there isn't any problems with the other two matchups.
If it works in Diamond but not in Silver that means that PvT requires more skill in the P side to be effective.

That’s what lower level Brood war is like- Protoss get it VERY easy at the lower levels, hence why you get a lot of C+ protoss players on ICCUP (So a Terran or a Zerg will have to be more skilled to reach the same rank) but it all balances out again once it gets in to the upper ranks.

Lower rank Zerg and Terrans just curse the Protoss, and high ranking Zerg and Terrans laugh at the Protoss. It was still fun.

[Norfindel]

That’s what lower level Brood war is like- Protoss get it VERY easy at the lower levels, hence why you get a lot of C+ protoss players on ICCUP (So a Terran or a Zerg will have to be more skilled to reach the same rank) but it all balances out again once it gets in to the upper ranks.

Lower rank Zerg and Terrans just curse the Protoss, and high ranking Zerg and Terrans laugh at the Protoss. It was still fun.

Sorry, never got serious with ICCUP. As they reset everything by seasons, you get to play against completely random players too much, or at least that's the impression i got when i played some matches there.

[ChAoS]

You're forgetting that the Terran player is also Silver, but he has a far easier time, and that there isn't any problems with the other two matchups.
If it works in Diamond but not in Silver that means that PvT requires more skill in the P side to be effective.

That the problems can be circumvented by heavy micro/macro in the Protoss side doesn't means that everything is ok in the lower leagues. Everyone deserves to play a fun, balanced game at all skill levels.

With P, you can get a Probe inside the Terran base before he closes the door, but that Probe is going to be killed sooner or later. Then, the T player can scan the P base to see what's happening inside, while the P player needs to wait for Observers, air units, or Hallucinations to see what's happening.

A T player can get Reactors to build Marines at twice the speed, and has queues, while a P player must get Warp-in ASAP, and use it constantly, because units from Gateways will get out too slowly.

Tanks in high positions and Planetary Fortress completely deny an attack. It's suicide to attack Tanks in siege mode with some support, no matter what kind of ground army you have. Slow and the amount of HP and firepower of a Marauder doesn't helps.

I don't doubt that things get much better in Diamond, when the player has very good macro and micro, but you cannot ask that from players in the lower leagues on one side of a matchup, it's just not fair. Otherwise, it's a "get better or get lost mentality", and it's not the idea of online gameplay, otherwise, the matchmaker wouldn't even exist, and everything will be like in SC1, when any new player gets destroyed online, and either gets training, or doesn't plays anymore.

Wow your really not seeing the point. Do you have any clue how hard it is to a balance an RTS like starcraft? It's like the other guy said it was the same way in BW. But all races have their advantages and disadvantages. It is your job to maximize your advantage and make use of the other player's disadvantages. If the game is balanced at the top level it is balanced at the lower levels, you just need to learn how to play.


ICCup resets every season so people have a chance at getting a better record this season due to improving during the last season and so top ranks are not a distant star to anyone that doesn't play every day all day.

[Norfindel]

Wow your really not seeing the point. Do you have any clue how hard it is to a balance an RTS like starcraft? It's like the other guy said it was the same way in BW. But all races have their advantages and disadvantages. It is your job to maximize your advantage and make use of the other player's disadvantages. If the game is balanced at the top level it is balanced at the lower levels, you just need to learn how to play.

Tsk! it's not like i'm inventing this. Go look TL, and you will see similar posts there. If they were not banned, it means it's not BS.

Also, what kind of comment is "learn how to play"?! I played 100 games in stage 2 alone. If there wasn't any issue, i wouldn't be posting this. The matchup is far from asking similar skills from both players.

Go ahead, take a look at TL. Seems like they're more comprehensive that some people here, lately.

ICCup resets every season so people have a chance at getting a better record this season due to improving during the last season and so top ranks are not a distant star to anyone that doesn't play every day all day.

They could as well just lower the rank of people that didn't played in a long time, instead of throwing all the data away, and basically sending all player into random matches again. No need to throw away useful data.

[Syphon]

Norfindel: QQ my favourite race needs buffing!