Hybrids and insfestations

[Gradius]

What? Where's the proof that more Protoss WOULD have rolled into New Gettysburg? You're the one fabricating scenarios here, not us. We're using what happened as a fact. And what happened was the Protoss didn't send more troops. You're the one making claims, and you're the one that has to prove it. So if you think the Protoss would have rolled in with more troops, then prove it.

So you know for a fact that after the New Gettysburg mission, after Kerrigan's forces died, and the protoss were still there, that they didn't send more troops even though they had them?

Please show me the evidence, because this is a bunch of nonsense. I don't have to prove anything, because I'm claiming that the areas of lore which are unknown are a matter of perspective.

What does that have to do with anything? Just because the Protoss landed on the planet first doesn't mean a thing when it says that they were headed to the hive. Kerrigan intercepted them on their way to the hive, and the game says so.

It has to do with the fact that I destroyed your initial assertion that that Kerrigan intercepted the Protoss before they touched any Zerg. She effectively backstabbed them.

As for the game, read what Kimera posted:

Sons of Korhal defend New Gettysburg platform, which houses the main zerg hive cluster, from the protoss. Retconned, in that New Gettysburg and its battle was moved to the surface of Tarsonis.

In fact, I JUST looked up Liberty's Crusade, right now. And what it says just goes to show you're quote mining in your favour. This is what DIRECTLY follows the dialogue that mentions the Protoss "making planetfall". Mind you they didn't even land on the planet yet, they were "making planetfall."

Nonsense. For your position to be true, it requires that:
1) Terran ships be 10x faster than Protoss ships.
2) Terrans can mobilize, suit up and reach their dropships in a matter of minutes, since that's how long it takes to reach planetfall.

You're also ignoring the line where it says the Protoss ships already engaged Zerg.

So yes, she did in FACT, intercept them according to the very source you used against us. And there can be not a single doubt about this, because the SOLE reason he sent Kerrigan was because he was afraid that the Zerg would fight the Protoss instead of killing the Confederates. I even underlined it for you. Kerrigan's Strike Force engaged the Protoss before the Protoss could engage the Zerg. That is the very definition of intercept.

My. Quote. Shows. Protoss. Already. Fighting. Zerg. Before. Kerrigan. Is. Sent.

“Eh?” Mengsk spun in place and looked at the board. Already the first blue-white triangles, the symbols of the Protoss, were making planetfall. The red Zerg triangles were dispersing in their wake in ripples. It was as though the Protoss were stones thrown into a crimson pond.
“This is bad,” Mengsk said softly. “Very bad. I did not expect them to arrive so quickly. This is very bad indeed.”

I said that as slowly for you as I could because I really can't make this any clearer. The red dots are scattered by blue dots. The fighting already begun. Nobody ever said that Kerrigan failed to hold off Protoss which killed the Confederates, just that the Protoss were surrounded on all sides while Kerrigan backstabbed them.

Furthermore, you defining the word neutralize doesn't benefit you at all. If I go and play Resident Evil 4 in the first mission, Leon Kennedy kills a bunch of dudes (yes he shoots them in the face until they die), and says he's neutralized them, so you can stop arguing semantics. Kerrigan killing off the entire Protoss base at NG means neutralize just as much as turning acid into water.

My bad for applying a word in the context of the mission objectives.

Yes, she "held off" the Protoss at New Ghettysburg, which means that the Protoss at NG failed to destroy the Hive that Kerrigan was protecting.

Non-sequitur.

She utterly destroyed them. If more Protoss were around the planet then it had nothing to do with Kerrigan because she wasn't even anywhere else.

I've already proven that the mission gameplay is not accurate.

And you still refuse to prove that the Hive was destroyed. Because obviously every source we have indicates that the Hive survived. Now you're asking me to prove that it survived beyond a reasonable doubt? Who's the one using religious logic here?

There are no sources saying the hive survived. The Zerg started moving right after they captured Kerrigan. I guess the fact that I never claimed the hive was destroyed since it's not critical to my argument still doesn't bother you

Pandonetho: The game itself says that Kerrigan prevented the Protoss from destroying the Hive in the mission. We don't have proof that it was destroyed after either, so we can assume it remained alive.
Gradius: There were still Protoss fighting the Zerg after Kerrigan got owned. So it doesn't mean it wasn't destroyed after!
Pandonetho: Prove it.
Gradius: PROVE THAT IT WASN'T DESTROYED AFTER!

Uhm, no. I said it was up for debate since we do not know. But you said it was NOT up for debate:

It really isn't a matter of perspective because Sarah Kerrigan accomplished her goals of preventing the Protoss from descending upon the Zerg's primary hive to destroy it.

You also said they failed to destroy the Zerg hive period, since at that time you had zero clue that the Protoss were still on Tarsonis after the mission:

They failed in their attempt to kill the primary Zerg hive. End of story

But since you're a dishonest debater who constantly backpedals and never feels obligated to back up your statements you have shifted to virtually the same position as me now: "we have no evidence".

[Pandonetho]

So you know for a fact that after the New Gettysburg mission, after Kerrigan's forces died, and the protoss were still there, that they didn't send more troops even though they had them?

Stop arguing uselessly. You are the one making things up. Not us. We don't have to prove that the Protoss didn't send more troops, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T. Since when did they send troops? Don't ask me, I'm saying they didn't. The game sure as hell didn't say they sent more troops. Neither did the books, so why do I have to prove it? That lies to you to prove it. Because you made the claim. Learn to follow your own rules, you prove what you claim happens, not us prove what didn't happen.

There are no sources saying the hive survived. The Zerg started moving right after they captured Kerrigan. I guess the fact that I never claimed the hive was destroyed since it's not critical to my argument still doesn't bother you

I'm sorry what? Quit twisting words like a child. There are no sources talking about the hive PERIOD. Meaning that we take what we have as fact, that it wasn't destroyed.

If I have a glass vase at home, and it wasn't destroyed. Are you suddenly going to ask me to prove that it didn't get destroyed 5 minutes ago now that I've walked out of the house? This is going around in circle, but only because I said they failed in the destroying the hive, which is something that follows the game. And you say that there's no evidence the hive wasn't destroyed after? Well give me evidence then that the hive survived. Otherwise I'm going with the fact that THERE WERE STILL ZERG ON TARSONIS WHEN THE UED INVADED as a fact that the Zerg hive survived. You have proof... of nothing. Just because they started moving means... what? That they left it completely undefended? Just because I have a cat at home means what? That it broke the vase? While I was out? I don't see how it's not critical to your argument as a whole chunk of it is trying to debunk what I said about the hive still being alive.

My bad for applying a word in the context of the mission objectives.

Were the mission objectives not "destroy the Protoss forces"? So I don't even know what you're talking about here.

Also, about the interception. I agree about that now.

[Gradius]

<rampant nonsense>

You might as well be arguing against a totally different person than me at this point. You seem to think that you can decide what your opponent's position is, but you can never provide direct quotes for any of the things you claim I said but demand that I prove anyway. At this point you might as well make the strawman your avatar.

We don't have to prove that the Protoss didn't send more troops, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T.

How. Do. You. Know. This. Stuff?

-__________-

There are no sources talking about the hive PERIOD. Meaning that we take what we have as fact, that it wasn't destroyed.

How can we take it as FACT that it wasn't destroyed if there's no information on it? Your logic is truly mind numbing.

Were the mission objectives not "destroy the Protoss forces"? So I don't even know what you're talking about here.

Mengsk never said to destroy the Protoss forces - all the dialogue in this game simply shows that Kerrigan was supposed to and did, only hold off the Protoss, or route them from the area.

Just because they started moving means... what? That they left it completely undefended?

How about the completely logical and possible idea that since the Protoss were in the area, the Zerg did abandon the hive to keep Kerrigan safe? What a coincidence that they leave right after the Protoss would have had a chance to stage a counter-attack?

Just because I have a cat at home means what? That it broke the vase? While I was out? I don't see how it's not critical to your argument as a whole chunk of it is trying to debunk what I said about the hive still being alive.

It's not critical to my argument because I never claimed for a fact that the hive was destroyed, only that since information about this event is unknown, it was a matter of perspective. Exactly how I explained (and you ignored) in my previous post:

Pandonetho: The game itself says that Kerrigan prevented the Protoss from destroying the Hive in the mission. We don't have proof that it was destroyed after either, so we can assume it remained alive.
Gradius: There were still Protoss fighting the Zerg after Kerrigan got owned. So it doesn't mean it wasn't destroyed after!
Pandonetho: Prove it.
Gradius: PROVE THAT IT WASN'T DESTROYED AFTER!

Uhm, no. I said it was up for debate since we do not know. But you said it was NOT up for debate:

It really isn't a matter of perspective because Sarah Kerrigan accomplished her goals of preventing the Protoss from descending upon the Zerg's primary hive to destroy it.

You also said they failed to destroy the Zerg hive period, since at that time you had zero clue that the Protoss were still on Tarsonis after the mission:

They failed in their attempt to kill the primary Zerg hive. End of story

But since you're a dishonest debater who constantly backpedals and never feels obligated to back up your statements you have shifted to virtually the same position as me now: "we have no evidence".

[Pandonetho]

You know what, I'm pretty much finished here. You arguing it's a matter of 'perspective' is based entirely on "where's the proof that it WOULDN'T have happened?"

You know how stupid that sounds? Your whole argument consists of "prove it since you claimed it." Fair.

The second point of your argument? "Prove that it WOULDN'T have happened."
You're a one sided coin. You don't even follow your own rules. Sure, keep throwing around the perspective argument. It pretty much fails because not only do you fail to give your opinion on what you thought the Protoss's purpose was, you then say it's a matter of perspective as to whether they achieved their purpose or not. Yes, how ever do we argue that they failed or didn't fail their purpose if you refuse to even acknowledge what their purpose was in the first place?

"Prove that it wouldn't have happened" is the worst argument on Earth.
Why don't you prove that Gestalt Zero wouldn't have just punched Muadun in the face to knock him out instead of neutralizing him with a dart? Since you seem to ignore all logic and use complete speculation to argue your position.

My very original argument consisted of the fact that the Protoss had failed to kill the Hive because of Kerrigan. Your argument consists of speculation that they "might" have killed the hive after Kerrigan's forces got crushed.

You can continue all day long with your speculation, it's not convincing anyone. I'll stick with the fact that the LAST KNOWN FACT about the hive was that it was not destroyed.

Well, this will be my last bored post from HK in this topic.

Got a plane to catch. When I come back we should play some TMA, haven't got a chance to do that with you yet.

[Gradius]

Your whole argument consists of "prove it since you claimed it."

Agreed. I'll see you in the next huge debate. :P

[Norfindel]

Sorry, but this is all BS. If the Protoss had engaged the Zerg, then that would have allowed the Confederates ample time to escape. Kerrigan prevented this from happening by not allowing the Protoss to interfere while the Zerg fought the Confederates, which means that the Zerg were NOT fighting the Protoss.

But the Protoss were still on the planet fighting the Zerg after Kerrigan was captured. How did her army fall to the Zerg while been able to stop the Protoss than then continued to fight the Zerg? That doesn't makes sense.

If the Protoss wanted to glass the planet then Mengsk would have no problem with that, as that would ensure both Kerrigan's death AND the Tarsonians's deaths. In fact, Kerrigan wouldn't even have been reborn as the QOB.

Of course that Mengsk would had been more than happy. I said that Kerrigan was stupid, not Mengsk.

[MuppZA]

From the new Starcraft media site a screenshot of Duran showed up in the artwork session! :O The pic is not named Samir Duran but what other black infested terran is in the lore! ;P

[pure.Wasted]

From the new Starcraft media site a screenshot of Duran showed up in the artwork session! :O The pic is not named Samir Duran but what other black infested terran is in the lore! ;P

1. That dude is not infested.
2. His name is Horace Warfield.

[MuppZA]

1. That dude is not infested.
2. His name is Horace Warfield.

Aha but it's something zergy sticking up behind his armor! :O

So whats that?

[pure.Wasted]

Aha but it's something zergy sticking up behind his armor! :O

So whats that?

I addressed this in the "New Artwork" thread. Chances are, he is in exactly the same place as Jim Raynor was in the recent cinematic commercial -- a Zerg Hive (or some other place of swarmy evilness).