Hybrids and insfestations

[Kimera757]

Uhm, no, the Zerg did lost the campaign. The Protoss killed the Overmind, and stopped it from consuming all creation. Obviously, that doesn't means they didn't have heavy losses. They did much better than the Xel'Naga, however, and the Zerg had plenty of time to evolve and consume other species since that time.

By campaign I meant the Tarsonis Campaign, or Fall of Tarsonis. (As in a military campaign; sort of like the Normandy Invasion is often called a campaign.)

[phazonjunkie]

1)

Protoss. They were saved by SOK yes, but might not have been saved in time if the Protoss didn't fight the Zerg.

Um, Mengks' goal was to make sure to ensure the Zerg destroyed the confederacy on Tarsonis and the greater number of it's citizens, not to save them. If you'll recall the ending cinematic, it shows the SoK fleet actually intercepting and destroying various Confederate transports/ships, attempting to escape.

[Gradius]

Um, Mengks' goal was to make sure to ensure the Zerg destroyed the confederacy on Tarsonis and the greater number of it's citizens, not to save them. If you'll recall the ending cinematic, it shows the SoK fleet actually intercepting and destroying various Confederate transports/ships, attempting to escape.

?

Well he did save them nonetheless, if only for propaganda purposes or to absorb people into his empire:

Most Confederate survivors quickly joined the Sons of Korhal, which became the primary military force opposing the alien invaders.

Source: http://us.starcraft2.com/features/storysofar.xml

Plus there's no way that his coronation video would show him destroying innocent transport ships. <_<

[SonOfChaos]

When I read the post the first thing I thought of was "Arkalis"

[phazonjunkie]

?

Well he did save them nonetheless, if only for propaganda purposes or to absorb people into his empire:
Source: http://us.starcraft2.com/features/storysofar.xml

In any case, that wasn't his original plan. His goal was the complete destruction of the Confederacy, and to that end, to use the Zerg and the Protoss to do his dirty work.
Had things gone completely according to plan, Tassadar and his fleet would have sealed their destruction by simply glassing Tarsonis as he'd done all the other infested worlds. Mengsk didn't expect the Protoss would actually try to save Tarsonis by taking the fight directly to the Zerg.

[Pandonetho]

Where's the proof that more Protoss wouldn't have rolled into New Gettysburg and crushed Kerrigan before the Zerg did? It doesn't exist, and that's why I originally said that this is a matter of perspective (though you guys seem positive it's not, so I'm interested in hearing how you can know all this stuff).

What? Where's the proof that more Protoss WOULD have rolled into New Gettysburg? You're the one fabricating scenarios here, not us. We're using what happened as a fact. And what happened was the Protoss didn't send more troops. You're the one making claims, and you're the one that has to prove it. So if you think the Protoss would have rolled in with more troops, then prove it.

New Gettysburg? We were talking about Kerrigan intercepting Protoss. Were they or were they not already on the planet by the time Kerrigan got there?

What does that have to do with anything? Just because the Protoss landed on the planet first doesn't mean a thing when it says that they were headed to the hive. Kerrigan intercepted them on their way to the hive, and the game says so.

In fact, I JUST looked up Liberty's Crusade, right now. And what it says just goes to show you're quote mining in your favour. This is what DIRECTLY follows the dialogue that mentions the Protoss "making planetfall". Mind you they didn't even land on the planet yet, they were "making planetfall."

“>If< the Protoss forces engage the Zerg,” Mengsk said, enunciating each word, “then the Zerg are fighting them instead of the Confederates. >If< the Protoss engage the Zerg, the Confederates may escape. The Old Families may get away, and with them the heart of Confederate power!” Duke blinked again, then his face fell. “We need to stop the Protoss, then. I can send them a transmission telling those glowing buzzards to back off.” Mengsk ignored him and hit some other toggles. “Send Lieutenant Kerrigan with a strike force to engage the Protoss advance party. Captain Raynor and General Duke will stay behind with the command ship.”

So yes, she did in FACT, intercept them according to the very source you used against us. And there can be not a single doubt about this, because the SOLE reason he sent Kerrigan was because he was afraid that the Zerg would fight the Protoss instead of killing the Confederates. I even underlined it for you. Kerrigan's Strike Force engaged the Protoss before the Protoss could engage the Zerg. That is the very definition of intercept.

Neutralize - to counteract the activity or effect of : make ineffective

Furthermore, you defining the word neutralize doesn't benefit you at all. If I go and play Resident Evil 4 in the first mission, Leon Kennedy kills a bunch of dudes (yes he shoots them in the face until they die), and says he's neutralized them, so you can stop arguing semantics. Kerrigan killing off the entire Protoss base at NG means neutralize just as much as turning acid into water.

I have absolute confidence in Kerrigan's ability to hold off the Protoss. (hold off, not destroy, but hold off to get Arcturus's goal done: give the Zerg enough time to kill the confederates)

And how does the fact that Mengsk says that Kerrigan can "hold them off" change anything? Yes, she can hold them off, in fact she proved that she did a lot more than just that, by destroying their base at New Ghettysburg completely. Yes, she "held off" the Protoss at New Ghettysburg, which means that the Protoss at NG failed to destroy the Hive that Kerrigan was protecting. She utterly destroyed them. If more Protoss were around the planet then it had nothing to do with Kerrigan because she wasn't even anywhere else.

And you still refuse to prove that the Hive was destroyed. Because obviously every source we have indicates that the Hive survived. Now you're asking me to prove that it survived beyond a reasonable doubt? Who's the one using religious logic here?

Pandonetho: The game itself says that Kerrigan prevented the Protoss from destroying the Hive in the mission. We don't have proof that it was destroyed after either, so we can assume it remained alive.
Gradius: There were still Protoss fighting the Zerg after Kerrigan got owned. So it doesn't mean it wasn't destroyed after!
Pandonetho: Prove it.
Gradius: PROVE THAT IT WASN'T DESTROYED AFTER!

See, you're the one making the claim here. Not me. All you said in response was that there were still Protoss combating the Zerg. It's up to you to prove that those Protoss in fact did destroy the Hive, not me (because I already said it wasn't destroyed). So don't go asking me to prove beyond a doubt that it WASN'T destroyed because really, we have no evidence to suggest that it WAS destroyed.

[Spartan13]

This debate is quite good...but its going on the HYBRIDS TOPIC ^^

[Norfindel]

By campaign I meant the Tarsonis Campaign, or Fall of Tarsonis. (As in a military campaign; sort of like the Normandy Invasion is often called a campaign.)

Oh, the Terrans lost that battle. The Protoss were there to help, but as they got attacked by Kerrigan and her army (as if the Zerg were not enough), they got the hell out of there.

Kerrigan was too stupid to do that. She was a stupid character up to that point, but going against the Protoss while the Psi Emitter lured tons of Zerg to the planet was one of the most stupid moves in the whole game. The Protoss could easily decide to burn the planet along with Kerrigan and the rest of the Terrans down there, after been attacked like that while trying to defend them, not to mention that the Zerg were lured in numbers big enough to defeat all Tarsonis, obviously her army wasn't going to be able to survive without a really quick evac, and even that would been risky as hell, once the Zerg got there. Even Raynor realized that the plan was suicide, genocide, and that Mengsk was a crazy manipulative bastard at that point, and he's not a genius, to say something.

[UnFoly]

If blizzard wants it to happen, it will happen.
If they dont,then it wont

[Pandonetho]

Kerrigan was too stupid to do that. She was a stupid character up to that point, but going against the Protoss while the Psi Emitter lured tons of Zerg to the planet was one of the most stupid moves in the whole game. The Protoss could easily decide to burn the planet along with Kerrigan and the rest of the Terrans down there, after been attacked like that while trying to defend them, not to mention that the Zerg were lured in numbers big enough to defeat all Tarsonis, obviously her army wasn't going to be able to survive without a really quick evac, and even that would been risky as hell, once the Zerg got there. Even Raynor realized that the plan was suicide, genocide, and that Mengsk was a crazy manipulative bastard at that point, and he's not a genius, to say something.

Sorry, but this is all BS. If the Protoss had engaged the Zerg, then that would have allowed the Confederates ample time to escape. Kerrigan prevented this from happening by not allowing the Protoss to interfere while the Zerg fought the Confederates, which means that the Zerg were NOT fighting the Protoss. Get it? If the Protoss wanted to glass the planet then Mengsk would have no problem with that, as that would ensure both Kerrigan's death AND the Tarsonians's deaths. In fact, Kerrigan wouldn't even have been reborn as the QOB.