Hybrids and insfestations

[Gradius]

Yeah I think we're done here. In case anyone missed it, here is what went down:

Pandonetho: Bullshit claim.
Gradius: Prove it.
Pandonetho: NO U.

I can go on all day with you.

Considering how all your posts are just a merry go round of untruths, non-sequiturs and circular reasoning, I'm sure you could. Ignoring facts/evidence while putting forth none of your own must indeed be easy.

And again, the fact that you refuse to provide your own input on what you think the Protoss goals are so that we can have a more common point to debate from.

Unfortunately I don't feel obligated to back up claims I never made. Why am I supposed to make this debate easy for you again? You think you can say whatever you want and everyone is just supposed to agree?

But I suppose you're just afraid that what you end up typing will be used against you.

You'd do that no matter what. I already have you using fancy terms like "strawman" and "burden of proof," which you got from me, regardless of whether it's relevant or not. And that is truly childish.

[Pandonetho]

Yeah, so the moment I use your child tactics against you, you instantly resort to some kind of fallacious argument to end the debate. Grow up man.

I really find it hilarious that you refuse to provide any shred of evidence to Kerrigan "backstabbing the Protoss WHILE they were fighting the Zerg" when the game mission itself had no such thing of that sort.

Also, you're saying that just because the Hive Cluster wasn't destroyed when Kerrigan there, that it doesn't mean it wasn't destroyed after? I've yet to see you prove that either.

I can go on all day with you.

And again, the fact that you refuse to provide your own input on what you think the Protoss goals are so that we can have a more common point to debate from. But I suppose you're just afraid that what you end up typing will be used against you.

You'd do that no matter what. I already have you using fancy terms like "strawman" and "burden of proof," which you got from me, regardless of whether it's relevant or not. And that is truly childish.

You're a real piece of work aren't you? You think I got strawman from you? Really? And you really do prove time and time again that you don't read, because I never even used "burden of proof".

Let alone that you're still ignoring my requests for proofs on claims YOU made, and STILL ignoring it, it just shows you're a massive hypocrite.

You haven't disproved a single thing. The game stated the Protoss were headed straight for the Primary Zerg Hive. I said they failed in destroying it.

You didn't pull out your little retcon card until later, and I still don't see how it changed anything seeing as how it didn't directly contradict the fact that the Protoss were still headed for the primary hive. So this is where it goes merry go round, because you bring up some point about Protoss still being on the planet, which is somehow supposed to be an argument against the fact that they didn't destroy the Zerg Hive? And even better, you haven't even proven a single thing, and STILL refuse, to prove that the Zerg Hive could have been destroyed after. Try harder next time, and without the hypocrisy. Otherwise, prove that the Protoss weren't attempting to destroy the Zerg Hive (because combating the Zerg means they try not to take out the PRIMARY hive right? Because that would be counter productive to combating the Zerg oviously /sarcasm).

Would also still request to see your proof that Kerrigan backstabbed the Protoss by attacking them > while < they were engaging the Zerg. Of course, I can predict you'll just ignore this again because you in fact, don't have proof and will try to redirect your own fault by again reiterating that I didn't support my claims blah blah. Of course, this is a direct claim made by yourself that Kerrigan attacked the Toss > while < they were engaged with the Zerg, but you still haven't provided proof of it. Until then, I'll just be content with calling you a giant hypocrite.

[MulletBen]

Hate to dissapoint you, Gradius, but your reduction has left out facts, distorted the truth AND made an outright lie.

Pandonetho: The Protoss failed
Gradius: No they didn't. There still could have been toss forces.
Pandonetho: And...? That doesn't mean Kerrigan failed and the Protoss won.
Gradius: Prove it.
Pandonetho: Prove what?
Gradius: Prove the toss failed.
Pandonetho: Well, Kerrigan delayed the Protoss for long enough that the zerg overwhelmed the Confederates. (childish insults).
Gradius: That doesn't mean that the Protoss failed.
Pandonetho: I thought it did. Isn't that what the toss were trying to do? Rescue the Terran?
Gradius: No.
Pandonetho: Then what were they trying to do?
Gradius: Prove it.

And so on....

[Gradius]

Well, looks like we're not really done here.

You're a real piece of work aren't you? You think I got strawman from you? Really? And you really do prove time and time again that you don't read, because I never even used "burden of proof".

Let alone that you're still ignoring my requests for proofs on claims YOU made, and STILL ignoring it, it just shows you're a massive hypocrite.

1) It's a figure of speech bro. My point was you didn't accuse me of making strawmen until I accused you.
2) Find me direct quotes I made that I didn't back up.

You haven't disproved a single thing. The game stated the Protoss were headed straight for the Primary Zerg Hive. I said they failed in destroying it.

You didn't pull out your little retcon card until later, and I still don't see how it changed anything seeing as how it didn't directly contradict the fact that the Protoss were still headed for the primary hive.

Why should I prove that the Protoss destroyed the primary hive if you can't prove that it was their objective or that it wasn't destroyed later anyway? I never said they did destroy the hive anyway, so you better find a better reason for why I need to care about this. You on the other hand, seem to KNOW that they failed in destroying the hive: "The game stated the Protoss were headed straight for the Primary Zerg Hive. I said they failed in destroying it."

Otherwise, prove that the Protoss weren't attempting to destroy the Zerg Hive (because combating the Zerg means they try not to take out the PRIMARY hive right? Because that would be counter productive to combating the Zerg oviously /sarcasm).

Sigh. Here is a complete breakdown of the mission for you to make this easier:
1) Protoss headed towards Zerg hive.
2) Kerrigan temporarily neutralized the Protoss (drove them back long enough to save the hive).
3) Kerrigan's forces got destroyed by Zerg.
4) ???
5) Protoss forces were still there.

How does this mean the Protoss failed in their goal? Should anyone who suffers a minor setback automatically give up? Of course, the premise of this mission has kind of been retconned, but your argument holds no water regardless.

Would also still request to see your proof that Kerrigan backstabbed the Protoss by attacking them > while < they were engaging the Zerg. Of course, I can predict you'll just ignore this again because you in fact, don't have proof and will try to redirect your own fault by again reiterating that I didn't support my claims blah blah. Of course, this is a direct claim made by yourself that Kerrigan attacked the Toss > while < they were engaged with the Zerg, but you still haven't provided proof of it. Until then, I'll just be content with calling you a giant hypocrite.

This would normally be nice trash talk except for the fact that I do actually have proof. Here it is:

“Not chess pieces. Tools. Talented, useful tools. And yes. Raynor, Duke, the Zerg, the Protoss. Yes,
even you and dear Lieutenant Kerrigan are all tools to achieve a greater good, a better future. Yes, things
look dark right now, and I’ll admit my culpability. But think of this: if things are terrible now, think how
good we’ll look when we take over, eh?”
“Don’t look now,” Mike said, looking past Mengsk, up at the screen, “but I think some more of your
tools are attacking your other tools.”
“Eh?” Mengsk spun in place and looked at the board. Already the first blue-white triangles, the symbols
of the Protoss, were making planetfall. The red Zerg triangles were dispersing in their wake in ripples. It
was as though the Protoss were stones thrown into a crimson pond.
“This is bad,” Mengsk said softly. “Very bad. I did not expect them to arrive so quickly. This is very bad
indeed.”
“Oh my God. Youreally didn’t expect this,” Mike said, blinking in surprise. Then the nervousness in his
stomach turned to chill fear, and he added, “Why doesn’t that make me feel any better?”

This is before he sends Kerrigan. Note that the protoss make planetfall, and that no Protoss are getting "intercepted" by Terrans as you're trying to make it sound.

Again, still bored of being the only one in this debate supplying proof/evidence!

Hate to dissapoint you, Gradius, but your reduction has left out facts, distorted the truth AND made an outright lie.

Pandonetho: The Protoss failed
Gradius: No they didn't. There still could have been toss forces.
Pandonetho: And...? That doesn't mean Kerrigan failed and the Protoss won.
Gradius: Prove it.
Pandonetho: Prove what?
Gradius: Prove the toss failed.
Pandonetho: Well, Kerrigan delayed the Protoss for long enough that the zerg overwhelmed the Confederates. (childish insults).
Gradius: That doesn't mean that the Protoss failed.
Pandonetho: I thought it did. Isn't that what the toss were trying to do? Rescue the Terran?
Gradius: No.
Pandonetho: Then what were they trying to do?
Gradius: Prove it.

And so on....

I...don't know what to make of this. lol. :P

[MulletBen]

All this argument is is a misunderstanding surrounded by irrelevant insults.

okay?

[Gradius]

All this argument is is a misunderstanding surrounded by irrelevant insults.

okay?

Only if you don't read the whole thing, sure.


PS: You guys shouldn't get the wrong idea. Me & Pandonetho are tight & chat over MSN all the time. Nothing wrong with a little hardcore debating. :P

[newcomplex]

Yeah I think we're done here. In case anyone missed it, here is what went down:

Pandonetho: Bullshit claim.
Gradius: Prove it.
Pandonetho: NO U.

....

Traditionally one provides proof for his own statements. Things are not "true until proven false" in debates. You realize your the one displaying "religious" logic right?

Unless I've completely misunderstood the nature of this conversation....I admit I haven't read through all the pages.

[Gradius]

....

Traditionally one provides proof for his own statements. Things are not "true until proven false" in debates. You realize your the one displaying "religious" logic right?

Unless I've completely misunderstood the nature of this conversation....I admit I haven't read through all the pages.

Uhm, are you talking to me? If so, you totally misread the example.

Let me break it down for everybody:

Pandonetho: Bullshit claim.

Pandonetho first makes the claim that the Protoss somehow failed in their objectives on Tarsonis because of Kerrigan, even though they were fighting Zerg both before & after Kerrigan came by.

Gradius: Prove it.

I ask him to prove how they failed in their objectives (or even how he knows what those objectives are).

Pandonetho: NO U.

He wants me to prove that the Protoss destroyed the primary hive that they were heading for.

[Norfindel]

This is easy. Kerrigan is shown shooting at 3 Zealots like 5 meters away running at her. That's sure death, no matter what Terran you are, so the picture is draw like that for the cool factor.

[Alex06]

Kerrigan, infested, still seems to be as strong as a human. She retains her human body shape. Yet, she and Zeratul have about the same strength, and Kerrigan is a woman! (I don't care if you think it's sexist, it's true that men have higher muscular potential than women...Well, in any case, well-built men have higher muscle power than women who look like beauty queens! :P) So yes, it is VERY plausible for a human to be able to defeat a Protoss. A normal one? Maybe not, but a cybernetically and genetically enhanced human (ex: Crysis Nanosuit meets a harshly trained, genetically enhanced human). Add psionics to that, and it is plausible.

Now, Zero didn't defeat them singlehandedly, but it seems plausible that he could defeat a Zealot singlehandedly, if he managed to avoid its psionic blades (like any other living sentient being in StarCraft). Plus, don't forget that Zero also has armor, not just the zealots! And he's not just a human, he seems more like a Protoss mentally.

As for Kerrigan in that picture, it seems like she just came out of stealth mode from the side and is head-shotting the zealots, who are advancing not on her, but forward, probably to some Zerg.
Also, the mission really did took place in a city on Tarsonis, not in space. The Sons of Korhal just routed the Protoss from the surface, who then retreated from Tarsonis.