Let your rank mean something!

[Sietsh-Tenk]

There have been some issues with the divisions in SC2. The most common complaint is that divisions create an artificial sense of reward. For instance, you might be number one in your Silver league division, but then there are hundreds of other divisions in Silver league, plus hundreds more in other leagues. Anyone halfway perceptive will feel something is lacking here.

Then there are those who feel leagues in general are useless, and it rewards people with ranks that are meaningless.

Let me begin by saying I feel both parties have a point. I remember the first time I gained a rank in TFT. It was so awesome! Out of tens of thousands of players in Europe, I was part of the best 1500, or wherever it started. That felt pretty good.

With the league system in SC2, this feeling of euphoria has been replaced by the feeling of achievement when I did quite well in Platinum. It meant I was better at this game than anyone in Gold, Silver etc. That was also a pretty cool realisation. However, I had no idea where I stood compared to other Platinum players. In a way, my ranking felt irrelevant.


I propose to have a mixed system in Bnet 2.0. I think leagues are really rather useful in having people lumped together with players of a similar skill level. It's also reminiscent of the leagues you have in professional sports: of course a football player in the UEFA Champions League (the Europe-wide football competition, for North-Amurrkans) is not going be in the team of your hometown football team. It only makes sense.

At the same time, I think divisions are quite useless. They only dilute the level of competition, and it really doesn't add anything to a sense of accomplishment. It only adds to a sense of being fooled into thinking you're doing well.

The most sensible way to go about rankings would be to retain the league system, for its usefulness in bringing together players of a similar skill level. The divisions should be dropped, however, so it really means something when you are number 1 in your league. The top APM cracks from Korea could compete for the number one spot in Diamond, the casual gamer will feel he's the best among his peers in Bronze.

As an addition, a global ranking system should be added. This should be based on a general rating players get by winning or losing, much like you had in TFT. Of course, I'll leave the specifics to Blizzard so it will be a balanced system. With this rating, you'll be ranked among the tens, if not hundreds of thousands other players in the world.
If this would make players feel lost, you could also narrow it down to the best five or ten thousands players, like you have a top thousand in tennis.

I think this will bring together the best of both worlds.

Any thoughts?

[Todie]

Relating to the subject and what i posted in the terribly derailed sc1 retail replays/gateways thread last night; a new post:

I think the general idea of competing within divisions is a sound one, generally speaking; to visualize competition among player - 100 by 100. it could be a good system - at least for lower tiers of play. but that would require building upon what makes it good; a ranking between 1 and 100 is easily identifiable by the player, and can hypothetically be viewed as meaning more than ranks in numbers of 10-thousands... it creates this localized feeling right? ... i dont think we should build the system on "feeling of rank" being better if the numers are lower though :

... if the system would force or encourage some interaction within the divisions, players would start learning who they were ranked amongst and thereby developing a sense of personal achievement over time as they bypassed these players in rank!

players within the same division should be matched against each other more frequently - if you played against those ranked closed to you more often - and if the game notified you of this - it would surely feel like it meant more! (and it would; a derby against someone your in competition means if you win, you gain points and your opponent loses points) ...

Another way to go would be to arrange for some form of monthly or weekly automated tournaments, with low rewards to discourage any form of rigging; rewards could be bonus points and achievements (im sceptical to league promotion as tournament rewards due to possible rigging, but maybe that problem can be built around?)


As for the highest levels of play, it all comes down to the size and success of the supposed "pro league" ... i dont think we even have to nag about the importance of this one being a 1-division league.. question is if it will leave out a bunch of top tier diamond players who'll still find no challenge in going for their #1 spot in diamond and low motivation to stay on top, knowing they're a fish in the sea and that pro-league invitations are personal... depending on these circumstances, it might be best to restrict diamond to fewer divisions - possibly even just one.

[Twilice]

I agree, the number of divisions should be depending on which leauge forming a "pyramid" system where the ones in the bottom can feel that they can be in the "top" of the "room" while those in the higher wants to really have the hierarky and wants to be *the* top.

[Triceron]

I think it's shock value that hits most people.

I agree it was great when you play and achieved a high rank in platinum, only to later realize you're part of division 127 and that there are that many players the same rank you are somewhere out there. You kind of feel demoralized after that.

But with that realization, you start to see the scope of what the divisions are, and what the ranks mean. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum etc are simply rough skill level indicators. It's the same as saying 'New' 'Beginner' 'Moderate' and 'Advanced' players. The ranks are not 1:1 with every player in the game, but when we're talking about millions of players as SC2 will get, why would you want to know you're Gold player #723,473? Also consider that with numbers so great, you could be gaining and losing -+5,000 depending on a win or loss. Stop playing for a couple days and you might drop 30,000 ranks. Would that even make sense?

For sake of a more realistic example, I'm rank 8 on Silver league 1v1, Division 136. I stop playing for 2 days and I drop 6 ranks down.

Now, all divisions are removed. Lets say 136 was the last division created. The amount of players in this league went from 100/division X 136 divisions to 1 division X 13,600 players. I may have been between Silver rank 952-1088; and for 2 days drop ~816 ranks. Does that look very appealing?

[Twilice]

That is true, good point were only in the beta test an playerbase will rise ALOT.
But I mean 100 players per division? well atleast 1000 players in each division....

[Dragoonx]

That is true, good point were only in the beta test an playerbase will rise ALOT.
But I mean 100 players per division? well atleast 1000 players in each division....

I'd like to see the divisions grow a bit in Phase 2. Has 100 per been said to be final?

[Twilice]

I'd like to see the divisions grow a bit in Phase 2. Has 100 per been said to be final?

No I don't think so, not what I know of. But I hope (and suspect) it's just temporarely. But as triceron stated you don't have to many players in the same place.

[Dragoonx]

No I don't think so, not what I know of. But I hope (and suspect) it's just temporarely. But as triceron stated you don't have to many players in the same place.

Eh I think its 100 now simply because of the Beta player pool size. There would be too many divisions at retail with millions of people playing ladder being divided into 100.

[SlickR]

There is a simple solution. Add global ranking and make it optionally to view.

So you know you are 5th in platinum division 20, but you can now also check your global ranking based purely on total accumulated points. So you are not for example 2157th in the global rank.

[Dragoonx]

There is a simple solution. Add global ranking and make it optionally to view.

So you know you are 5th in platinum division 20, but you can now also check your global ranking based purely on total accumulated points. So you are not for example 2157th in the global rank.

How would that matter any at all since the end goal in both systems is the Pro league more or less?