Burrow Tactics - BR3 - Observer - Discussion

[RamiZ]

Oh oh i see a troll in this thread...

[unentschieden]

Scrouges are very hit/miss units due to their siingle Target Suicide nature. They are always (cost)effective if they hit, that is why they dominate SC:BW Zerg anit air. Hydralisks? used because their ranged.
Mutalisks? They might as well only be AtG and hardly anything would change.
Devourers? What is that?
Spore colonies? Ok but right now very very rarely seen, mainly as detection against the Bisu build.

Banelings are a bit different since they are AoE. That means they are balanced around taking out several Units at once, if the enemy can sacrifice a single unit against a single or even several Banelings you are losing/it´s ineffective.

[MaybeNextTime]

Except for ZvZ... T____T

[Pandonetho]

he Neural Parasite on the two Collosus' wouldn't have worked.

Um, you do know that the Infestor isn't useless above ground right? Just because it's been spotted doesn't suddenly mean that neural parasite stops functioning.

[RamiZ]

Um, you do know that the Infestor isn't useless above ground right? Just because it's been spotted doesn't suddenly mean that neural parasite stops functioning.

Yeah, or it could be hidden below other units.

[SpiderBrigade]

The point is that the Colossus controlling was enabled by the Zerg player hiding his Infestors along the Protoss attack path. Basically because of burrow-move he was able to completely outflank the Protoss army and catch the Colossi from behind. He also scouted several attacks before they happened, which gave him time to react.

With observers in play, those forward scouting Infestors would have been dead or driven away. The Zerg would have had to try to parasite troops from behind his own front line, which means it would be much more difficult to hit the Colossi, since they are long-ranged support units which tend to stay in the back of the opponent's army.

So of course Neural Parasite will still be useful even if the opponent has detection. But the point is the uber tactics seen in the BR will not be happening, which will affect the balance.

[Nicol Bolas]

I have a feeling the same issue will arise with the baneling, but those have more inherent disadvantages than scourge.

The Baneling is much easier to deal with, due to being a ground melee unit. On the ground, you have terrain features that enhance or decrease it's effectiveness. Scourge are fliers; there are no terrain issues related to them.

An easy way to solve the problem of the observers might be to give corrupters a range that is just shorter than the observers sight range. This would lead to players dancing their corrupters and observers around, to get sight range or snipe the observer.

I don't understand what this supposed problem is. Why are Corrupters, the primary Zerg AtA unit, incapable of dealing with a unit that has 60 Hp? Why do they need a range extension to deal with such a unit?

Remember: the purpose of the Corruptors in this instance is to get rid of Observers. If the Observers have to back away because they see approaching Corruptors, they've done their job: the Observers are no longer a part of the battle.

The problem with the whole "resurrect the Scourge" idea is that it is born of this notion that if something is not instantly killing air units, then those air units somehow don't notice them. This comes from being familiar with Scourge being the Zerg's primary AtA weapon, not from the reality of the situation.

Since the corruptor for corruption to work actually has to kill the units, wouldn't it be sweet if that while that lil 2 second debuff is on them along come some scourge to clean up shop and get some fast zerg turrets! Corruptor = ATA Scourge = ATA >> Combo those up and we should see some good times!

And what about the problems that having Scourge naturally brings?

But the point is the uber tactics seen in the BR will not be happening, which will affect the balance.

Nonsense. They simply would have required more effect. Namely getting Overseers and a few Corruptors to deal with those pesky Observers.

There's a difference between "can't do it" and "needs effort".

[Runei]

Banelings do AoE attack even if they are killed right? So if they die by probes the probes would still die? Does anyone know the baneling AoE damage by chance I would really like to know. It looked like banelings in br2 didnt kill scv 1 hit but in br3 they killed probes 1 hit. They have increased the baneling size also to make it a more targetable unit since previous builds and now that it has to upgrade to be able to have speed makes baneling even easier to handle.

I don't know how fast corruptors move vs observer movement speed either. I suppose I'll need spire every single game though to prevent back door warp prisms, or the 'unlimited shuttle'. Man can you imagine if a shuttle got into your base and could use recall over and over and over...

[PsiWarp]

Banelings deal 55 damage + 45 vs Buildings, AoE is moderate, but full damage is dealt to everything caught in the blast.


-Psi

[MattII]

I don't know how fast corruptors move vs observer movement speed either. I suppose I'll need spire every single game though to prevent back door warp prisms, or the 'unlimited shuttle'. Man can you imagine if a shuttle got into your base and could use recall over and over and over...

Wow, if you can't shoot down a 140 hp unit hovering stationary over your base you deserve to lose. Of course I realise that it only has to have its psi-radius touch ground, but even so, the radius isn't more than 6 is it?