Burrow Tactics - BR3 - Observer - Discussion

[Operatoring]

You now have Banelings if you like the idea.



You asked for games?

All i saw was you claiming you're so good that i mays well not play.

Well there you are, i wont play. I will probably lose since i dont really play much SC multiplayer. I will hope to change this in SC2, but meh.

Basically, this is a new game, so what was in the old one shouldnt be in the new one simply because its a new game. You mays well play SC1 with graphics enhancements if thats all you want to play.

Let's keep this thread on topic.

Lucious, did you read this thread at all? This is a discussion about whether or not to bring the Scourge back, and if so, what incarnation should it come in. I think it should be a spell on the Infestor. I'm not going to get into all of this again, if you want to know what I think, there are plenty of posts in this thread that will tell you just that.

If you aren't going to participate in a constructive manner, get the fuck out.

[PosImpos]

Scourges are damnably hard to balance. Either they're a waste of money because they don't survive long enough to do anything, or they're overpowered because the few that do get through do colossal damage.

I think this guy's got to the root of the problem.

I have a feeling the same issue will arise with the baneling, but those have more inherent disadvantages than scourge.

[Runei]

There will be Original Starcraft units in Starcraft 2. I'm not certain but I think SC2 will be a different game still even with some of the original units in it. With better pathing I would enjoy seeing one of these being the scourge. For its limited survivability rate, and the fact you are literally losing the unit for it to be good I feel that it would be a great re-addition to the zerg swarm. Perhaps maybe if we compensate by increasing the gas price of it? Or do you just really not like the scourge and won't hear any thing else about it? If you do that's fine, just curious.

Edit: I believe it should still come from the Spire. Only reason being it not as a spell on the Infestor is because I have my hopes up that it will have a consume ability maybe, and then that would be OP to spam scourge for no resource price.

[Rake]

An easy way to solve the problem of the observers might be to give corrupters a range that is just shorter than the observers sight range. This would lead to players dancing their corrupters and observers around, to get sight range or snipe the observer.

[Runei]

I think that is a good idea Rake. If I could use Corruptors for sniping obs as well as infesting units I would be more than happy to do that. And given the fact that Corruptor has only ATA I don't see why it would hurt to have its range extended. Would make for good micro fights to have obs dancing around to have its detection in the fray and Corruptors bouncing back and forth trying to snipe it out, while also not getting swamped by gta or other potential ata

[Lucius_Raecius]

Lucious, did you read this thread at all? This is a discussion about whether or not to bring the Scourge back, and if so, what incarnation should it come in. I think it should be a spell on the Infestor. I'm not going to get into all of this again, if you want to know what I think, there are plenty of posts in this thread that will tell you just that.

If you aren't going to participate in a constructive manner, get the fuck out.

Its a forum, ideas change over time.

I was replying to Runei.

Read the whole thread please.

You want to know whether the scourge should come back. I disagree, i think its a unit that adds nothing to the game and is, in fact, a detriment to the game due to its power against enemy air units, it changes the dynamic to make sure that they just arent used.

I believe that those who want the scourge back are simply wanting Starcraft 3D, rather than Starcraft 2. That is why i spoke like that, and that is why i am justified.

Give me some proof that a scourge is needed where a normal Anti Air unit could be used instead.

There will be Original Starcraft units in Starcraft 2. I'm not certain but I think SC2 will be a different game still even with some of the original units in it. With better pathing I would enjoy seeing one of these being the scourge. For its limited survivability rate, and the fact you are literally losing the unit for it to be good I feel that it would be a great re-addition to the zerg swarm. Perhaps maybe if we compensate by increasing the gas price of it? Or do you just really not like the scourge and won't hear any thing else about it? If you do that's fine, just curious.

I can listen about the scourge, but i still dont like it as an idea.

In Starcraft 1, the largest most powerful units are expensive, hard to tech to, slow, but powerful. There is already a host of reasons to not take things like Carriers and Battlecruisers.

Scourge just adds another problem to this. We should want to tech to high tier units for their power. If a low level unit like the scourge prevents their use, then the scourge is a bad unit concept.

The problem is that due to their cheapness and numbers, scourge are easy to mass in a way that you could just send enough to demolish most of the end game units, meaning that it takes little skill to destroy a unit which is difficult to acquire.

Consequently, such a thing shouldnt exist if only so we can see a good representation of all units in the game.

[Runei]

In Starcraft 1, the largest most powerful units are expensive, hard to tech to, slow, but powerful. There is already a host of reasons to not take things like Carriers and Battlecruisers.

Yeah Zerg doesn't have that by the way. We are en masse and we suicide our stuff. Can we have our scourge back now so you can keep BC and Carrier? Otherwise, we can follow your philosophy and just scrap them because omg they are sc1 units...

Edit: Again with the Edits! -- I just thought of a great combo. Since the corruptor for corruption to work actually has to kill the units, wouldn't it be sweet if that while that lil 2 second debuff is on them along come some scourge to clean up shop and get some fast zerg turrets! Corruptor = ATA Scourge = ATA >> Combo those up and we should see some good times! One thing of being OP comes to mind, scourging into Thors and Colossi which are able to be hit by air targets. They have such slow build times and are slow and will have literally no way to micro away from scourge. Thoughts?

[xprex]

i didnt read through all of these so forgive me if this was already posted but.... perhaps.. have an upgrade ability for baneling so it can morph into a scourge like creature, but has splash damage like a ground baneling (OP?)... or something even more simple, like the baneling can burrow and then launch itself into the air and explode, so it is limited to attacking air units traveling over ground. hell i dont know, just brainstorming.

[PsiWarp]

@Runei: Incorrect, the Thor is a massive ground only unit, it does not have the unique dual vulnerability of the Colossus but instead possesses anti-air capability.

I have an idea about the Scourge that directly relates it to the Corruptor. An ability named Scourge Seed, that creates an aerial floating mine in the air beside the casting Corruptor. The seed will accumulate up to 4 Scourges, with 1 starting Scourge as its timer decreases.

Once the timer reaches 0, all 4 Scourges will be released into the air to destroy incoming enemy flyers. However, if the Scourge Seed is destroyed before the timer completely stops, it will release however many Scourge it contained. An example time value would be 15 seconds to naturally hatch the seed, each Scourge takes 5 seconds to accumulate (except for first Scourge). Scourges deal around 20 base + 10 vs Light, so all 4 would destroy 1 Mutalisk with direct hit.

This is more of a counter to swarms of air units, such as Mutalisks, while Corruption (if the Korean event translation is true, the Corruptor will only need to damage the enemy to a percentage) is focused on capital ships, because an HP percentage trigger means it doesn't take Corruptors as much time to corrupt a Battlecruiser, as to completely destroy it.

Think of it as bringing in reinforcements and adding extra attacks, a Corruptor already deals 12 + 8 vs Armored, a Scourge would deal this to all units and extra to light. They are extremely deadly to Carrier Interceptors, I might add.


-Psi

[Lucius_Raecius]

Yeah Zerg doesn't have that by the way. We are en masse and we suicide our stuff. Can we have our scourge back now so you can keep BC and Carrier? Otherwise, we can follow your philosophy and just scrap them because omg they are sc1 units...

No you cannot. If there is a triumvirate of units, and the use of one prevents the use of the other 2, then that one is the problem.

Any my philosophy is "make the games different". Again, you exaggerate too much. That is a problem, you know.