Burrow Tactics - BR3 - Observer - Discussion

[Lucius_Raecius]

Thought this topic was on scourges not medivacs and medics and what not. I love scourges. Don't think it will change because two newbs say its imbalanced. Guess we'll see in the final build though.

Shhhhh the big people are talking now.

Every time you call people newbs or anything like this, your credibility just disappears.

Why would i want to listen to the opinion of a trash talking oaf like yourself?

Present your case with intelligence, and people will react intelligently. Present it with pretentious trash talk, and people will react like you are trash.

[Runei]

Lucius, I don't know why you insist on trying to provoke me. You're going to end up getting the thread locked cuz your acting like a child. The fact I would easily smash you 10-0 aside, your comments all thread have only been to talk about me with your lil crush you got son.

[Lucius_Raecius]

yes, your the big man who can computer like no other :P

Anyway, you should read my comments then, i have been adding things to the thread. The problem is its very difficult to argue with someone with a hard on about scourge about why scourge shouldnt be.

So i apologise if i hurt your feelings, just be more mature and look at things rationally.

[Nicol Bolas]

Lucius, I don't know why you insist on trying to provoke me.

So, let me make sure I understand. You call him a noob (not to mention anyone else who doesn't agree with your position). You then say, against anything remotely like logic and reason, that this alleged noobishness invalidates his argument.

And he's the one provoking you, the one acting "like a child". Um, OK.

He is right about (at least) one thing: you have yet to present a case for retaining Scourge. Nor have you presented a case against the argument for dropping Scourge. All you have done is made assertions that Scourge are good predicated solely on the belief that your ability to play StarCraft makes you an expert in game design.

Then I remembered it was about burrowing.

No, it was about how dependent the Zerg are on burrow and how simple Observers could shut down many Zerg strategies. The original post then lamented the lack of Scourge, operating under the belief that Scourge are the only possible unit that can kill a weak 60 Hp unit that can't even shoot back.

The thread thus is about resurrecting Scourge.

[Skyze]

Runei, I am not going to post on the scourge discussion, just because I havent thought about it enough to really form an opinion, but I will speak on the whole arrogantness/bashing of Nicol Bolas..

It isnt good when you are barely a C- player to be bashing anyone. Nicol Bolas, if you were an oldskool player, you would know was a good player back in the day from the Lizard clan if I recall.. The Lizard clan had some of the best players in early starcraft, and im sure for Nicol Bolas to be apart of that, he couldn't of been that horrible. Sure, like 85% of old players, he doesnt play right now (or serious playing), and therefor sure he probably can't beat you right now, but that doesnt mean he "doesnt have a passion for starcraft" or "is a lesser skilled player".. You are part of the "new wave" of replay watching, copying players builds, which anyone can get C with acouple games if they do standard builds decently.

And I am saying this knowing you decently well, as I was Skyze.Onfire, played with you afew times and while I also have hardly played since 2003, and havent played on iccup since last year, I do know that you are not good enough to be talking trash. Just maintain your manner, because even if you can reach A on iccup, if you talk shit and treat other players like "lesser" starcraft fans, you will never be good (cough IdrA cough)..

Dont treat anyone on here like a "lesser" starcraft fan just because they dont play iccup. Go on TL.net if you want to brag about your icc rank (and I dont think C- will be enough to brag on TL.net lol) This is a forum for ALL starcraft fans, even if they dont have 300 APM, they have a valid opinion of the game, actually probably better than most because typical east players like yourself just say random shit about SC2 that isnt even logical, because you are realizing that when SC2 comes out, you will have to make your own strats until the "pros" release all their "perfect build" replays. People like me realize that regardless of how the game comes out, I will be on top of the ladder because I know that my RTS talent will win over any "imbalance" or "changes". I have faith that blizzard will balance the game (altho it may take time) and whatever patch it is, I am confident I can win. None of that "omg MBS makes newbs own me now" shit, cause I know regardless of what they add to the game, Its still an EVEN advantage for both players when it starts, the better player will come out on top regardless.

/end tangent.

[Skyze]

I will say one thing about the Obs/scourge discussion.. In order to get observer fast enough to counter earlygame baneling/burrow/etc, You would have to skip many tech, and will probably leave you open for some kind of all-in or something, much like in SC1, if you fast expo and rush sair/obs instead of templar or zeal speed, you can be overrun by hydras. Its a risk you have to take, you can either go fast obs to counter burrow/zerg tricks, and risk being raped because all your min/gas into getting fast obs, or you can delay obs a bit longer to survive earlygame. Of course, we wont know any real balancing until beta comes out, but thats how I see it, just like PvT, if you are going fast reaver drop, you are open wide for vults mine contain/run-in's, where as if you go Obs first, you are giving him 2-3 minutes of time to get turrets/goli's up to stop reavers.. Its always a trade-off, teching up for specific units. Its not like obs is tier 1.

Scourges may be needed IF the corrupters do not fill a good Anti-air role, since I havent seen any corrupters enough to form an opinion, The only thing that made me think scourges should be back in the game was when the phase prism was forming the warpin while being in the air, not landed on ground, That made me think scourges should be available to disable that (since ground units would have a hard time killing the phase prism). Other than that, I think corrupters should be able to manage, and maybe they can even be a decent counter for the phase prism thing.

just my quick two cents.

[Runei]

I'm still up in the air about scourge. (lol!) I think that adding banelings is a great compensation for it though, I've always adored the idea of zerg mines. The scourge... a reason it should be in the build besides the fact I love it? What more could you want, iz truly all that matters to me! ^.^ I'm still hesitant to see if Corruptor is my answer to ATA but going back on one of my prime concerns of ovie snipes... if you upg to overseer from lair tech you get speed which can make getting them to gta a lot easier than before.

One positive outcome of this thread is that I will be using scourges a lot more after putting so much thought into them!

Edit: (sry so many edits, dont wana flood thread) I don't think Zerg is dependent on burrow, just benefited.
Skyze - "and therefor sure he probably can't beat you right now, but that doesnt mean he "doesnt have a passion for starcraft". You are part of the "new wave" of replay watching, copying players builds, which anyone can get C with acouple games if they do standard builds decently."
- Aw im hurt . yeah I didn't say that he didn't, so I'm not sure where you got that idea. Just pointing out that I do... passion and all that jazz
Ive been here since the "old wave", so this "new wave" is a fun experience, maybe if you got on it you could grasp some new strat potentials and you'd be down for some theorycraftin baby! LoLzzz ^^

[Lucius_Raecius]

I'm still up in the air about scourge. (lol!) I think that adding banelings is a great compensation for it though, I've always adored the idea of zerg mines. The scourge... a reason it should be in the build besides the fact I love it? What more could you want, iz truly all that matters to me! ^.^ I'm still hesitant to see if Corruptor is my answer to ATA but going back on one of my prime concerns of ovie snipes... if you upg to overseer from lair tech you get speed which can make getting them to gta a lot easier than before.

You now have Banelings if you like the idea.

I realise this a forum for all Starcraft fans, didn't realize this was a forum you get flamed on when you ask for games though either. Just used to gamming a lot thas all. ^.^

You asked for games?

All i saw was you claiming you're so good that i mays well not play.

Well there you are, i wont play. I will probably lose since i dont really play much SC multiplayer. I will hope to change this in SC2, but meh.

Basically, this is a new game, so what was in the old one shouldnt be in the new one simply because its a new game. You mays well play SC1 with graphics enhancements if thats all you want to play.

[Runei]

No, I like a lot of sc2 features so I 'mays well' play Sc2... Thinking back to balance though in an earlier comment about AoE damage to handle mass scourges. Can you refresh me why you guys believe scourges shouldnt be in SC2 again? In SC1 build there was no sair or valk (even tho valk is hardly a viable unit to fight scourge heh) and everyone managed fine. Should we take out the zerglings and scv's too to avoid being like SC1 Lucius? You so crazy
I still think you guys are just out ruling scourges because you think they are insta-pwn or whatever you said, even though this is very untrue. So untrue that it had me question your guys experience, sorry if you took it personal but seeing through zergs eyes every game makes me feel that scourge is probably the hardest unit to handle from being lost let alone actually getting hits off well.
Scourges are great unit, definitely should be included.

[Lucius_Raecius]

No, I like a lot of sc2 features so I 'mays well' play Sc2... Thinking back to balance though in an earlier comment about AoE damage to handle mass scourges. Can you refresh me why you guys believe scourges shouldnt be in SC2 again? In SC1 build there was no sair or valk (even tho valk is hardly a viable unit to fight scourge heh) and everyone managed fine. Should we take out the zerglings and scv's too to avoid being like SC1 Lucius? You so crazy

You overreact like a Jewish mother.

Scourges are great unit, definitely should be included.

That they may be a great unit is why they should NOT be included.

Would you not rather see a different game?

Or, if you dont like that question. How about this.

If you dont like playing SC2, then play SC1. I want SC2 to be a different game, so lets make it different. It wont be different if we start bringing back units which make things difficult for everyone like the scourge.