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Thread: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

  1. #1

    Default We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Wha?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gaza Blockade at work
    Among the large range of goods currently forbidden are jam, chocolate, wood for furniture, fruit juice, textiles, and plastic toys.
    Clearly the Israelis are on to something here. If they're not letting the TERRORISTS! have fruit juice or chocolate, that must mean there's some dastardly plot cooked up by the TERRORISTS! involving Godiva and Nantucket Nectars in the works.
    Superior capability in language does not necessarily equate to superior intelligence...but it certainly doesn't help your argument if you sound stupid.

  2. #2

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    And the point is...? I'm not saying that the Israelli government hasn't done some extremely stupid decisions, and yes, Palestinians live in crummy conditions. But if you really want to help them, then getting rid of the Hamas and a significant chunk of the Palestinian leadership is what should be done, if there are people responsible for the current situation, they are the first to blame. It's easy to criticise Israel when living somewhere else, but it's we who have to deal with suicide bombings and rocket bombardments. The Israeli government is not blameless, but it's difficult to offer humanitarian aid or establish peaceful relations with people so much under control of militant extremists and who have solid reason to hate you simply by virtue of their predicament. Imagine someone suffering from a wound (inflicted on him by your father), but you can't help him bandage it because all he wants to do is go for your jugular with a knife, and then you both have to share the same room. You'd have to restrain that person if you want to live. That's an extremely simplistic parable but it does sum up the reasons for the blockade of Gaza (which is by no means a good policy, but are there any better alternatives?). Can you blame a country from trying to isolate itself from extremely hostile terrorist groups? Could your country (ANY country) do better in a similar situation? These are the questions to ask.

    If the article linked is true, then the policy described is one of the more asinine things done by our government. But why the hell should sympathy with Palestinians automatically be followed by casting Israelis in the role of the villains? I'm irritated (to say the least) when the media attempts to paint the local situation in black and white terms and condemn one side while extolling the other. There are villains on both sides (who most likely imagine themselves to be Heroes and Great Champions of Worthy Causes) who are responsible for this miserable conflict going on and on, and for the suffering of both Israelis and Palestinians, but they are a select few, and the rest are simply victims of prejudice, stupidity and unreason. Any sort of swaying of international favour or sympathy solely in the interests of one side is both detrimental and puerile. If people really want to help, they should not write articles that serve their own self-righteousness and wish to be perceived as "the good and the just" but rather articles that help both sides understand each other and hopefully find reconciliation.

  3. #3

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    No one can ever say whether a country can do better or not. It'll never happen, as humans and governments are extremely unpredictable. We all know Hamas, some parts of Fatah, and the rogue factions in Gaza are indeed much more malignant than the Israeli government (key, government) is. No one will ever agree with Hamas, and while it seems people criticize Israel more, it's because we've already cast Hamas off as a cancer. However, does this buy the Israeli government immunity from scrutiny and criticism?

    As per your post, Eligor, I can see you do find some thing disagreeable with your own government, but will someone actually do something about some of these plain idiotic policies? I understand that rockets do come, and its horrible. But there are just some things that the government must be held accountable for and must be changed. The amount of aid Israel lets in is too little. The things that they refuse in is sometimes bizarre, random, and has no merit to security. The overall blockade, while helps the Israeli citizen, causes much, way too much suffering for the Palestinian people. No human life should be worth more than another, especially not the way the blockade is creating now. And I even have personal beliefs that the suffering created by the blockade creates more hatred and potential terrorists.

    Do I have a solution? Probably, but let's face it, I'm just a nobody, and it's just words. I'm no policymaker and I doubt you'd find what I say agreeable anyhow. At the very least, the Israeli government, while integral, ultimately must get rid of some of their draconian and overreacting policies/laws. No one advocates getting rid of Israel, or destroying Israel. We squawk to get action on the crap that plagues all governments.

  4. #4

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Thing is, I agree with everything you said. I'm just irked by the international response to the recent Gaza Flotilla accident. People professing sympathy out of a kind of self-righteous sentimentalism, a wish to please their conscience and affirm their self-image by "commiserating with the poor Palestinians" and "condemning the evil Israel". No wish to actually help SOLVE a conflict, but accusation for accusation's sake. The whole thing was practically staged to create a sort of hysterical backlash, add more fuel to the fire, show how "bad" Israel is. Public demonstrations of this kind are ever about the aggression of the mob and "baiting" authority to retaliate, it would not have ended any other way and had the people on those ships really wished to help they would have been less damn ostentatious about it than they were.

    The Gaza Blockade is a crummy situation, make no mistake, and the way it is carried out may do more harm than good but it is not unwarranted, its detrimental consequences are due clumsiness and paranoia on the Israeli side rather than calculated malice. In some ways I'm glad we can do as much and not resort to violence (even such a crummy arrangement is not the "Easy Way" in a situation like that), on the other hand, it doesn't really help. I do believe that the government should provide more humanitarian aid (and humanitarian aid above the usual "gesture of grace" of canned food and blankets, pay for the rebuilding of destroyed houses in Gaza for one, create medical centres for Palestinian people, as well as schools, offer them more opportunities to integrate into Israeli society witout losing cultural identity, make the study of Hebrew mandatory for Palestinians AND the study of Arabic mandatory for Israelis (in the end this conflict will be decided not on the level of political treaties but that of the simple people, communication and language are crucial to a peaceful resolution)). I will, myself, gladly pay more taxes to see this kind of activity on the government's part. Some may claim it to be an all too idealistic approach, but that's the thing to do if any change for the better is to be brought about in a foreseeable amount of time.

  5. #5

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Meh.

    I find it really hard to sympathize with the blockade runners, considering that they were carrying less cargo than Israel allows into Gaza in a week, and they violently resisted detainment.
    After watching Israel withdraw from the West Bank and from Gaza, and then seeing Hezbollah attack them repeatedly, it's increasingly harder to sympathize with the Palestinians. While Israel needs to stop building on the West Bank, sufficient pressure to get them to stop won't happen until the Palestinians start picking up hints from Gandhi and MLK Jr.

  6. #6

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Im not criticizing anything about Israel. Just to be clear.

    But that is funny. lol.

    no we cant have sugar high terrorists...no
    well we cant have them drinking fruit juice, no we cant have that...lol.

    Saw a good one a while ago from the US.


    It is illegal to have sexual relations with a porcupine within 20 feet of a school.

    It is illegal to shoot at rabbits or any other animal while on a moving watercraft.


    law class in highschool was fun. lol.
    Sorry if this was off topic lol.

  7. #7

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quirel View Post
    After watching Israel withdraw from the West Bank and from Gaza, and then seeing Hezbollah attack them repeatedly, it's increasingly harder to sympathize with the Palestinians.
    Hezbollah is a Lebanese group. They have nothing to do with the Palestinians. I think you mean Hamas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quirel View Post
    While Israel needs to stop building on the West Bank, sufficient pressure to get them to stop won't happen until the Palestinians start picking up hints from Gandhi and MLK Jr.
    Unfortunately, there's not much they can do. You can't just blame the people. Do you blame North Korean peasants for Kim Jong-il's antics? How about the Burmese people for apparently oppressing themselves? Perhaps during WWII, you would vindicate all German citizenry as Hitler followers and 100% agreed with nuking whole cities of non-military civilians in Japan because of an Emperor's imperialistic intentions.

    While many philosophical thinkers state people do ultimately can control the destiny of their governments, technology such as guns and control of food/aid have made "the people's risings" largely ineffectual. Lack of education, collective punishment techniques, and poor infrastructure makes it hard for a more "caring" government to rise up. But it's not impossible considering Lebanon (sans Hezbollah), Jordan, and Egypt, all close neighbors of Israel have largely remained on neutral, if not peaceful terms.

    But you cannot just blame the people and state you'll only help or even care that they're human if they start turning their starvation, depression, and ignorance into British-educated lawyer Gandhi or someone through unique circumstances of Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #8

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Well we wouldn't let the commies have our bodily fluids, so this is like the terrorist counterpart.

  9. #9

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashandaeri3 View Post
    It is illegal to have sexual relations with a porcupine within 20 feet of a school.

    It is illegal to shoot at rabbits or any other animal while on a moving watercraft.


    law class in highschool was fun. lol.
    Sorry if this was off topic lol.
    The second one makes a little sense, considering that the watercraft could be knocked over, but the first one???

    Why a porcupine? Why 20 feet? Knowing some of the people I do in RL, they'd probably start having sex with the porcupine 21 feet away from the school, just to be a putz.

  10. #10

    Default Re: We mustn't allow the Terrorists to have...fruit juice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eligor View Post
    And the point is...?
    Leaving aside questions about the legality of the blockade, collective punishment, etc., that this blockade is quite silly and rather pointless. It doesn't help your argument that "we're trying to stop Hamas from firing rockets at us" when the list of illegal aid arbitrarily includes items like nutmeg.
    Superior capability in language does not necessarily equate to superior intelligence...but it certainly doesn't help your argument if you sound stupid.

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