Idea: Give Proton Charge Disadvantages

[MattII]

The shared Mana idea is pathetic, either it ruins the gameplay (one power source all buildings/units tap into), or it changes practically nothing (one power depot all units/buildings contribute to).

[mr. peasant]

The main problem I see with a shared energy source is that it doesn't scale well. It will either be capable of perma-Proton-Charge during the early game (when you're handling only one mining site) or it will be vastly inadequate for late game (when you're handling multiple mining sites) due to insufficient energy to go around where as the Terrans and Zerg can scale according to their needs.

[Gifted]

I've thought of a few ideas to help out the macro mechanic. Not major but something interesting at least.

1. Set a probe maximum for the ability: When you use it there is a maximum number of probes within the area it affects. An example being 6-7. This means that to allow for maximum effectiveness you have to use it multiple times. This will increase the cost of the speed boost overall for larger bases but will do well in smaller expansions. Downside is that to select there will be a sort of randomness. That is something I'm against however. At minimum this removes the edge of this ability being multiplicative instead of additive.
2. Energy Cost increase: I think increasing the cost of the energy used on the ability will be something to consider. This means you can use the cheaper alternatives or use the costlier boost to econ. Since there is no limit and obelisks are easy to produce comparitively this is something to consider
3. Cost versus return: I think we need to look into the cost of the obelisk versus the gain it provides to economy. Let's say it's total mineral cost is 200 minerals... how many boosts will it take to recover 200 bonus minerals in speed? This is something to consider as well as a limiting factor.
4. *REGARDING SHIELD DRAINING* If you want to explore ideas such as a shield drain, I think it would make more sense to have it drain the shields over time and when a probe runs out of shield the effect is removed and the shields start to regernate. This will add a new level of strategy to the game. The boost will be more "powerful" economically than the other races, however, it has more options to mitigate/reduce. Terrans can EMP for example to reduce effectiveness. This will also negate it being a "spam" ability because if you do too often then you're essentially wasting energy (if the probes have minimal shields, the ability has minimal effect)
5. Single target boost: If you use the above mechanic, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider balancing a single target version of the ability that can target anything (at the cost of degernating shields for it's duration) I don't think it would be used but worth a discussion.

[PsiWarp]

I support number 1 of your proposal, in which will demand for increased investment on Obelisks in the home base if one wants all his workers at maximum economic efficiency (due to the large number of Probes often found within the base).

Another idea, good or bad: Proton Charge enhances all minerals caught within the AoE, so the balance factor can be the size of the AoE and careful positioning of the ability. All Probes that gather from those minerals will gain +1 carriage of minerals.

However, each Probe that gathers from the minerals will receive passive shield damage, until they reach 0 and must wait until they either harvest elsewhere, or move away, or the affect on the minerals ends to regenerate back the shields.

Perhaps that Proton Charge animation on the Probes, can indicate the shield damage.


-Psi

[Rake]

Shared mana is definatly something that should be looked into but as Spider points out it doesnt solve other problems with the obelisk.

I like the idea of creating tension between protoss mining and protoss unit production. But Protoss already havea unit production mechanic in warp-in. If any one has any other ideas for Protoss mechanics that increase unit production I would love to hear them.

Shared mana was only supposed to solve the problem of tension, then the only problem is to find a spell useful enough to make it worth sacrificing minerals. The only one I can think of (except perhaps for increased unit production which others have suggested) is to link it with warp in so that the protoss trades minerals for mobility. The main problem with this suggestion might, again, be complexity, as you would be drawing energy from the obelisk when you used a warp gate, which could be very confusing at first.

The main problem I see with a shared energy source is that it doesn't scale well. It will either be capable of perma-Proton-Charge during the early game (when you're handling only one mining site) or it will be vastly inadequate for late game (when you're handling multiple mining sites) due to insufficient energy to go around where as the Terrans and Zerg can scale according to their needs.

The shared mana pool is supposed to increase both in maximum amount and in regeneration speed every time you build a new obelisk. So it can scale to late game. This also means that you can make obelisks more expensive because they can't be wasted if they are in the wrong position as long as you have one near minerals.

[ArcherofAiur]

Shared mana was only supposed to solve the problem of tension, then the only problem is to find a spell useful enough to make it worth sacrificing minerals. The only one I can think of (except perhaps for increased unit production which others have suggested) is to link it with warp in so that the protoss trades minerals for mobility. The main problem with this suggestion might, again, be complexity, as you would be drawing energy from the obelisk when you used a warp gate, which could be very confusing at first.

How about an Obelisk ability that teleport a Protoss unit back to the Obelisk? This can be used to save damaged units (kinda like stalker micro). This ability would combo well with both shield and energy regeneration. Once recalled back to the base the player must come back to the base to get it. While back at the base the player can also cast things like proton charge, make gateways, etc... so it encourages macro style gameplay too.




Would this abilty be worth sacrificing minerals for?

[Rake]

How about an Obelisk ability that teleport a Protoss unit back to the Obelisk? This can be used to save damaged units (kinda like stalker micro). This ability would combo well with both shield and energy regeneration. Once recalled back to the base the player must come back to the base to get it. While back at the base the player can also cast things like proton charge, make gateways, etc... so it encourages macro style gameplay too.




Would this abilty be worth sacrificing minerals for?

That is actually a pretty good idea. Imagine teleporting back a fleet of carriers just as they lose their shields so they don't take any HP damage.

One problem might be a lack of use in early game, when the only thing you have to teleport is a scouting probe. It would be pretty funny to teleport back a 1 hp probe just before it is killed but it probably wouldn't be worth the investment.

[mr. peasant]

The shared mana pool is supposed to increase both in maximum amount and in regeneration speed every time you build a new obelisk. So it can scale to late game. This also means that you can make obelisks more expensive because they can't be wasted if they are in the wrong position as long as you have one near minerals.

Then, you wind up having the same problem unless the energy pool is 'X + (n-1)*Y' with Y<X in value (e.g.: 1 = 150, 2 = 250, 3 = 350...). However, this makes it somewhat complicated.

[Rake]

Then, you wind up having the same problem unless the energy pool is 'X + (n-1)*Y' with Y<X in value (e.g.: 1 = 150, 2 = 250, 3 = 350...). However, this makes it somewhat complicated.

I don't understand the problem; perhaps you could explain it again?

This is the way I think about it: Say an obelisk has a maximum of 100 energy and 1 tick of regeneration per second. If you build a second obelisk then the shared energy pool would have a maximum of 200 with two ticks of energy regeneration per second. If you build a third then it would be a maximum of 300 with 3 ticks of regeneration per second. You get the same benefit in regeneration and capacity as if you had built lots of them and they all had separate energy pools except that all the energy is accessible from any of them and taking from any takes from all, thereby creating a trade-off for casting decisions.

[mr. peasant]

The argument was that if you build enough Obelisks, you could theoretically permanently keep the Probes on Proton Charge.