Idea: Give Proton Charge Disadvantages

[ArcherofAiur]

Yeah, and Obelisks serve no other purpose. (High Templar can be merged or use their new spell that will hopefully be useful).

They have two other abilities actually
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Obelisk

And even in their new form, you can still build as many as you need to cast proton charge on probes until they're permanently charged.

You can build as many disrupters as you need to block a chock with forcefield permanantly. If thats what your willing to invest time, minerals and attention in than thats the advantage you get.

And the fact that they do want to get hit (and move in a VERY small area, whereas Proton Charge hits a HUGE AoE.) is a big different. So saying that doesn't really mean anything.

Ok this part I actually agree with you. I think the radius for proton charge should be much smaller so that it requires skill to get as many probes in a casting as possible. Right now it seems you just click anywhere near your minerals.

There is a maximum number of probes that is prudent, and when you hit that number, you stop building probes.

A second ago you were arguing that their was a maximum number of Obelisks that is prudent. When you hit that number of Obelisks you stop building.

There is no maximum number of times that you can cast Proton Charge.

There is no maximum number of times you can cast psi storm.

[n00bonicPlague]

What are the Obelisks standing abilities?

Are they Shield Regen., Energy Regen., and Proton Charge?

[MattII]

That's what they are as far as I'm aware.

I guessing then that my Proton Charge = explosive Probes is not popular?

[Aldrius]

They have two other abilities actually
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Obelisk

Neither of which is in any good in your base.

You can build as many disrupters as you need to block a chock with forcefield permanantly. If thats what your willing to invest time, minerals and attention in than thats the advantage you get.

That'd be a waste of minerals on the nullifier, it'd be easier and cheaper to just build a couple of pylons.

A second ago you were arguing that their was a maximum number of Obelisks that is prudent. When you hit that number of Obelisks you stop building.

Sure, but you never stop casting proton charge.

There is no maximum number of times you can cast psi storm.

Except that it's on a unit that costs 150 gas and only has 80 HP.

[ArcherofAiur]

Neither of which is in any good in your base.

unless of course your being attacked in your base which is the exact situation you guys are talking about when you suggest removing the probes shields.

You guys are proposing making it so if you use Proton Charge you lose base security. That is already the case. If you are spending all your money on Proton Charge you dont have shield or energy recharge if your base is attacked.

That'd be a waste of minerals on the nullifier, it'd be easier and cheaper to just build a couple of pylons.

Disrupter=50 min, 100 gas

Obelisk= 150 min

Sure, but you never stop casting proton charge.

Unless you need to micro or have more minerals than your spending.

Except that it's on a unit that costs 150 gas and only has 80 HP.

Their is still no maximum number of times you can cast it. I dont see how it costing 150 gas makes this not so?

[Rake]

The main problem with the Dark Obelisk is not that the abilities are too good or too easy to spam, it is that they are not in tension with each other. When you call down mules as a terran that means that you can't scan, so you have to make a decision as to what is more important, information or economy. Whereas in Protoss you can make one pylon for probes and another for other spells and never have to decide which to use.

I suggest that to bring the spells into tension with each other you give all the Dark Obelisks a shared mana pool. That is, when you build a new Dark Obelisk the mana pool total and regeneration increases by a set amount that can be used from any Dark Obelisk.

This means that if you build two Dark Obeilisks, one in your base and one near your opponents base, you will have to decide if you use the mana on an attack or on economy because the mana pool for the both the Obelisks is the same and will be drained by any casts you make.

One advantage of this is that you can never waste a Dark Obelisk building because they will always contribute to mana, so they can be made more expensive. Another is that it contributes to race diversity because the other two races ave nothing like this. A disadvantage is that it might be confusing at first.

What do you think?

[DemolitionSquid]

The main problem with the Dark Obelisk is not that the abilities are too good or too easy to spam, it is that they are not in tension with each other. When you call down mules as a terran that means that you can't scan, so you have to make a decision as to what is more important, information or economy. Whereas in Protoss you can make one pylon for probes and another for other spells and never have to decide which to use.

I suggest that to bring the spells into tension with each other you give all the Dark Obelisks a shared mana pool. That is, when you build a new Dark Obelisk the mana pool total and regeneration increases by a set amount that can be used from any Dark Obelisk.

This means that if you build two Dark Obeilisks, one in your base and one near your opponents base, you will have to decide if you use the mana on an attack or on economy because the mana pool for the both the Obelisks is the same and will be drained by any casts you make.

One advantage of this is that you can never waste a Dark Obelisk building because they will always contribute to mana, so they can be made more expensive. Another is that it contributes to race diversity because the other two races ave nothing like this. A disadvantage is that it might be confusing at first.

What do you think?

I think its too complicated and confusing. And could you explain it by lore?

When it comes down to it, Proton Charge WILL BE the ability of choice. Will you occasionally use the other abilities? Yes. But the advantage of being able to consistently gather more minerals with no downside provided by Proton Charge will make it spammed every second its available, just like MULES will trump the Planetary Fortress 99% of the time. Archer just can't understand that minerals are the single most important thing in the game, you will always want more, need more, and having too many is better than not having any at all.

[Noise]

I don't mean to be an asshole, but I don't think any of these suggestions are harsh enough disadvantages for it to ever be a choice; even if I lost probe shields I would be spamming proton charge all the time.

[MattII]

So what about my idea of giving PC Probes explosive deaths? One Baneling can shred a whole mineral line simply through the collateral.

[Noise]

So what about my idea of giving PC Probes explosive deaths? One Baneling can shred a whole mineral line simply through the collateral.

Well the only time you wouldn't use it would be when you think shit's about to go down in your mineral line, which is very rare. You would never not cast it 'just in case' someone harasses you.

A better idea would be one that actually competes with proton charge for in-base usage, for example you can target a nearby production building and it warps in units a lot faster or something like that. Then you have to choose between extra minerals or extra production. That still doesn't solve the problem of obelisks being so cheap that you can have a whole bunch each of which is dedicated to one ability.