Ultralisks Pretty Scary now!

[Hammy]

Saying dropping them doesn't make sense is the exact same as saying unburrowing them while an army passes over doesn't make sense.

Yeah except the fact that a quick focus fire from your opponent will kill 500hp of muscle in a second (and all the ressources). And what do you do with your army while your overlords are moving in? Does your army engage before the ultralisks even leave the overlord's belly? If so, why use hydra to soak up the damage instead of ultralisks? Do ultras deal more damage per capital? What about their damage per health compared to the other units? And health per capital?
If not, then you're just sending overlords and ultralisks to their death instead of using them in synergy with your army.

So no, those are two very different things.

[Pandonetho]

So no, those are two very different things.

You don't even know what you're talking about. First of all, you have not proven how unburrowing and dropping Ultralisks are 2 "very different things" and second, the whole point of the drop is to do it while your army is engaged. If you didn't suffer from illiteracy you would have noticed that the scenario I posted earlier was set in the time where people complained that Ultralisks died too quickly. Guess what that means? It means that focus firing them while they charge into your ball will kill them just as fast as you supposedly saying they will when they get dropped into an enemy army. Dropping them into the middle of such a huge range based army like the Terrans might actually be a good strategy, as tanks would not be able to damage your Ultras, and if they did, they would just splash their own units. Next time, learn how to read. No one said anything about dropping your Ultras into an army, letting them die, then sending in your main army. It's supposed to work at one coincided time, similar to a flank.

Notice how no one here disagrees with the idea that dropping Ultralisks may work? Except you, of course.

[Nicol Bolas]

First of all, you have not proven how unburrowing and dropping Ultralisks are 2 "very different things"

Obvious things are obvious and thus do not need proving. If the enemy force is static, burrowed Ultralisks will play no part in stopping them. Except for units that can burrow-move, burrow only works as a way to hold territory. If they never move into that territory, then burrow means nothing.

In short, you cannot offensively burrow. You can offensively use drops.

[Pandonetho]

In short, you cannot offensively burrow. You can offensively use drops.

Okay thanks for that, but it doesn't really change the idea around the fact that in a battle, if an enemy is moving over your Ultralisks, unburrowing them really isn't that much different from dropping them. As you said, burrowed Ultralisks can't be used offensively, so dropping them might work. Each has its own benefits or disadvantages though, such as unburrowing will unburrow all of them at once, while dropping drops 1 at a time from each overlord. As well, unburrowing causes units over them to move out of the way, meaning they can't attack during that period (although with such superior pathing it isn't much of a factor now).

[Hammy]

You don't even know what you're talking about. First of all, you have not proven how unburrowing and dropping Ultralisks are 2 "very different things" and second, the whole point of the drop is to do it while your army is engaged. If you didn't suffer from illiteracy you would have noticed that the scenario I posted earlier was set in the time where people complained that Ultralisks died too quickly. Guess what that means? It means that focus firing them while they charge into your ball will kill them just as fast as you supposedly saying they will when they get dropped into an enemy army. Dropping them into the middle of such a huge range based army like the Terrans might actually be a good strategy, as tanks would not be able to damage your Ultras, and if they did, they would just splash their own units. Next time, learn how to read. No one said anything about dropping your Ultras into an army, letting them die, then sending in your main army. It's supposed to work at one coincided time, similar to a flank.

So you can finally agree that burrowing =/ dropping. Glad that's out of the way.
I should add that I was obviously saying that dropping involves taking the huge risk of losing your overlord... and whatever is inside it.

"Yeah except the fact that a quick focus fire from your opponent will kill 500hp of muscle in a second (and all the ressources)."

This wasn't explicit enough for you? Ok here we go again:

"Yeah except the fact that when your ultralisks are in a unit with 200hp and 0 armor a quick focus fire from your opponent will kill 500hp of muscle in a second (and all the ressources)."

You say they die just as fast when you run them in, but at least in that scenario your army can get into position without taking damage.


You're getting all excited but don't even address the main issue I bring up: would you rather have your ultralisks or your hydralisks take those tank hits? For the same money you get a lot more hitpoints out of an ultralisk (even when disregarding armor). Whether ultralisks die too fast to tanks isn't related to the fact that they're still better at absorbing damage than hydra.

Feel free to try this at a decent level, but the most likely event I can forsee is your hydra melting to tank fire while half of your overlords die to viking/thor/marine fire. I think the best you could do with this this is try and catch the guy off guard, and you're taking an enormous risk that way, and if you've got such a lead, you'd probably have a better chance by just charging in and owning him.

And btw, tank splash is negligible when the tank hits an ultra, since it's so huge.

Notice how no one here disagrees with the idea that dropping Ultralisks may work? Except you, of course.

Because indifference means they agree with you.

How about trying to understand what I'm saying before calling me ignorant and illiterate? This isn't a flameboard.

[Pandonetho]

Why would your opponents focus fire overlords when they're too busy fighting your bulk army? If that was such a high risk than players would just mass overlords with their army every time they attack an enemy, since you believe that the enemy would waste all their time focus firing overlords. The whole point of being Zerg is about flanking, not a-moving. Sure it involves a risk dropping, but everything in this game involves risk. Ultralisks raze units to the ground with their cleave attack fast, so if it means you can get your Ultralisks close up to the enemy army without having them take damage beforehand, they can do that much more damage. Secondly, nobody charges into a fully set up Terran army with tanks all sieged and ready to roll. As I mentioned before, playing Zerg is about flanking the opponent, so you attack them when they're moving out, and not sieged and defensive. Third, who says you can't just have a mix of Ultralisks on the ground and some in an Overlord?

Your point about Hydralisks tanking damage instead is moot, because once Ultralisks are dropped amidst your army (they're usually taken out first, because they're tanks, are they not?) they're most likely guaranteed to be targeted first, so either way they're still doing their job. I believe Ultralisks can raze clumped up units down to the ground faster than Hydralisks can, so it's simply a trade off. Would you rather have your Ultralisks die before even reaching the enemy, so that you have more Hydralisks? Or would you rather take your opponent by surprise, lose some hydralisks in the process, but get Ultralisks into or close to their army?

Splash is negligible, since they're so big, really? IIRC did someone not do a test with Thors and tanks, where tanks ended up slashing other Thors, even though they're so big?

Note that thors are often dropped to harass...why can't ultralisks just be dropped into a main army? Engage + drop ultras in the back? Flank with them? Unburrow them?

There are several scenarios where an Ultra drop would be insanely good.

These are called indifferent? Maybe you really are illiterate. Not only that, you make things up too, because I never even mentioned the word "ignorant".

[Hammy]

No need to get into the whole "how thors are different from ultralisks" thing, but regardless, I don't chose how to play based on polls. And even if I did, you should understand that "look two peoplez agree with me!!" is an irrelevant argument.

Perhaps not the word "ignorant", but "you have no idea what you're talking about" is similar in this context, and a false assumption. Now if you want to keep on acting like you're 13 and calling me illiterate, feel free to do so, but you're not helping your argument much.


On another note, you can be sure that if an opponent expects a drop he'll be shooting those overlords down. However, if your overlords are taking damage in battles, you should definitely try using them to help tip the balance if you can afford it (even by just flying them over, empty). If you do that and start playing mind games, then you could start droping all sorts of stuff and you can mess with your opponent's mindset. I might be willing to buy that, but I'd still rather use something other than ultralisks because it would be a pretty big loss to get one shot down by a coupe of marines.

Nobody charges into a fully set up Terran army with tanks all sieged and ready to roll. As I mentioned before, playing Zerg is about flanking the opponent, so you attack them when they're moving out, and not sieged and defensive.

Then why the hell are you dropping on his army if he hasn't got any high range units around?
You've just nullified your whole point. Get your facts straight.

Splash is negligible, since they're so big, really? IIRC did someone not do a test with Thors and tanks, where tanks ended up slashing other Thors, even though they're so big?

Show me a link, make sure it's in the last patch, and compare it to a tank's splash on smaller units like hydra. Should I be more explicit so you understand what I'm trying to say?


My last words here because I'm tired of your tone and this isn't really constructive: knock yourself out doing that and losing battles you could have won with a better set up. I sure as hell won't because I don't think it's useful in 99% of the games. I always keep an open mind to this stuff, and I might even try it, but your arguments don't cut it for me.
And btw, I can even help you out with that last part if you want.

[Pandonetho]

Then why the hell are you dropping on his army if he hasn't got any high range units around?
You've just nullified your whole point. Get your facts straight.

You're telling me that YOU need to be more explicit? Right. I never said the enemy didn't have high ranged units, I said when they're not sieged and defensive. Don't know how it can get more explicit than that.

Also, I love it when people always play the "act like a 13 year old" card. You think it makes you look so mature, doesn't it?

Show me a link, make sure it's in the last patch, and compare it to a tank's splash on smaller units like hydra. Should I be more explicit so you understand what I'm trying to say?

No point any more, since this argument is exhausted and I'm sick of talking to you. You think just because you're "strategy staff" that it suddenly makes a strategy (that was simply suggested, not even tried) nullified in all possible situations because you say so? You're a joke.

[VVheat]

...Notice how no one here disagrees with the idea that dropping Ultralisks may work? Except you, of course.

I disagree too, I just didn't post untill now.

Dropping is good, but you are better off dropping any unit other than Ultras.

Ultras suck in the current version, those who say otherwise are just wishful thinkers.

[0mar]

Ultras are trash, a complete waste of minerals and gas. You have to do so much to make them even worthwhile, nevermind cost effective.