Okay, something HAS to be done about the Void Ray...

[Genopath]

Void rays are fine, learn to counter them and focus fire.

[minerals]

You do realize that MARINES a tier one unit completly demolish voidrays right?

[Kimera757]

You do realize that MARINES a tier one unit completly demolish voidrays right?

They do on paper. Once the void rays are charged up, they kill everything fast. Even workers!

[TheRabidDeer]

They do on paper. Once the void rays are charged up, they kill everything fast. Even workers!

Contrary to popular belief, marines still demolish charged VR's. The only time VR's ever have an advantage over marines was prior to the range nerf on a cliff.

20 marines (1000 minerals 20 supply) beats 6 CHARGED void rays (1500 minerals 900 gas 18 supply) and still has 9 marines left (13 marines left if they arent charged).

[Roland]

Keep in mind void rays are really hard for protoss players to micro, they're totally worthless if they don't keep a charge , which means the Protoss will be hard pressed to keep moving wounded void rays to the back, while maintaining a charge, Protoss players essentially have two options, take a beating and risk losing any number of VRs while they charge up, or keep trying to micro them, and risk losing a charge if the enemy keeps focusing on the wounded one. I recommend you divide your army into 2-3 groups when dealing with void rays, and have each group focus down a separate void ray, the Protoss will be forced to have several almost-dead void rays by the time he charges, which is better than 1 totally dead void ray you may get by focus firing, or the protoss will be forced to pull several void rays off their charge, which is just as hindering, I've had it done to me, and it works fairly well.

[Blackdogkt]

Apart from the usual "get more hydras/mutas", what does a zerg player do in such a case?
It's obvious that countering this relies heavily on scouting.

So my question is, when zerg is the easiest race to be scouted, yet one of the hardest to scout with in the early game (especially with the latest patch that upped overlord speed to 100/100), how can you be sure about it?

I made a habbit of getting an early evo chamber for upgrades and throwing down 2 spore crawlers around my mineral line, but if he comes with a well timed ground push it can cost me the game right there. It's not even about sacrificing the overlords, that's a given pretty much, it's that they are so slow in the early game and every other race can wall off.

The combination of map design (wall off plus choke) with the security it provides (straight tech to air) and your disadvantage in early game scouting as a result of the wall off makes it a bit of a pain.

Suggestions? The only thing i can think of is making an extra queen per hatch, some transfusion micro to buy a few seconds (the queen will die 99% of the time) and spreading creep highways so the hydras can reinforce in time. I don't know what happens in higher leagues (other than what i see in high level replays), but cheesing is too powerful against zerg in the lower leagues, wether that is proxy cannons or a straight tech to VRs or cloaked banshees. Of course VR is not outright cheese, but teching straight to them just because you can block the ramp with a token force of sentries qualifies for it.

TL;DR version...what can you do to counter fast air tech when you are at a scouting disadvantage and their ramp is blocked? Are you just reduced to guessing or do you just make more crawlers and risk losing to a ground force because you didn't spend the larva/resources on units?

[Gifted]

Keep in mind void rays are really hard for protoss players to micro, they're totally worthless if they don't keep a charge , which means the Protoss will be hard pressed to keep moving wounded void rays to the back, while maintaining a charge, Protoss players essentially have two options, take a beating and risk losing any number of VRs while they charge up, or keep trying to micro them, and risk losing a charge if the enemy keeps focusing on the wounded one. I recommend you divide your army into 2-3 groups when dealing with void rays, and have each group focus down a separate void ray, the Protoss will be forced to have several almost-dead void rays by the time he charges, which is better than 1 totally dead void ray you may get by focus firing, or the protoss will be forced to pull several void rays off their charge, which is just as hindering, I've had it done to me, and it works fairly well.

Interesting angle, I've found that shift-clicking on them to kill each one fast matters a lot. However, this is one of the few things you have to move underneath a bit to ensure that all your units are attacking. You can't just attackmove to them otherwise the front row attacks and the rest of them scurry helplessly while you contribute to the painful charge.

If you play Zerg, if you scout, 2-3 queens and save a little energy. A tranfusion or two will change the fight from "I'm screwed" to "You're screwed".

[KillaKhan]

I have a solution! NERF VOIDRAYS!
Seriously, take some range away, give them a range upgrade.

[Gradius]

I have a solution! NERF VOIDRAYS!
Seriously, take some range away, give them a range upgrade.

If they nerfed the Void Ray even more nobody would use it. Phoenix are already more effective in 1v1s than Void Rays in my experience. Void Rays are for team games where a guy can sit back and mass them up while another player distracts people. Of course that goes for any critical mass unit.

[GRUNT]

Apart from the usual "get more hydras/mutas", what does a zerg player do in such a case?
It's obvious that countering this relies heavily on scouting.

So my question is, when zerg is the easiest race to be scouted, yet one of the hardest to scout with in the early game (especially with the latest patch that upped overlord speed to 100/100), how can you be sure about it?

Zerg are probably the BEST race to scout with!

Remember that as Zerg, your whole existence is usually to FE and then try to discover what manner of annoying strategy is going to be coming from your Terran or Protoss opponent, so Zerg are given the means to find out .

First, you have your scouting Drone. This can last quite a while depending on what build your opponent is going for.

Second, send a scouting Zergling! Run up the Protoss' ramp, then back down again. It doesn't matter if he's walled off, you'll still get vision of the area once your Ling reaches the top of the ramp, and you can make a reasonable guess as to whether or not the Protoss is teching based on the number of troops she has behind her wall.

Third, if you're really suspicious, sacrifice an Overlord.

Finally, get an Overseer as soon as you reach Lair! This is what I usually do. I did this even pre-patch, because the Overlord's Pneumatised Carapace took time to research, and I really valued getting my information ASAP.

In any case, getting more than 1 Queen per hatch early in the game seems to be getting increasingly popular against Protoss. It's a very safe style, the Queens don't directly eat into your Larvae production (only your minerals), and they aren't useless even if your opponent doesn't go for Vrays.