The Main Problem with Dark Pylons

[Aldrius]

So cloaking, even cloaking of buildings, is still a combat orriented ability. The thing is macro abilities will always be stronger then micro abilities (this has to do with their global effect on war machine potential).

It's not combat oriented ability necessarily, though. It'd be possible to hide your dark obelisk tech for example, to prevent your opponent from learning of that DT rush without having to build your Templar Archives on the other side of the map. And it's something you must manage, in your base. (Due to the timed nature of the cloak)

[SpiderBrigade]

The problem I see with global cooldown for the DP is that now we are limited to "1" dark pylon. It's just a matter of where you want to use it, but it severely limits the use of it since it's all from 1 energy pool.

What if we made it so that it's global cooldown still, but each DP has its own energy to spend?

That could also work, yes. The cooldown would have to be shared by both abilities so you'd still have the element of choice, though.

However, you should also remember that there are ways to mitigate the limitation of the global energy reserve. For instance, the ability cost could be reduced, or the size of the energy pool increased. I've also suggested that each additional DP would add a smaller amount of extra energy, so you do get some benefit and additional uses by having lots of them - but it's still more limited than each one being able to cast independently.

[ArcherofAiur]

Have we talked about allowing the DP's to cast their abilities anywhere in Pylon power?

Like Warp-Gates can cast Warp-In. This allows the abilities to be global without the problems of combined energy pools.

[SpiderBrigade]

Have we talked about allowing the DP's to cast their abilities anywhere in Pylon power?

Like Warp-Gates can cast Warp-In. This allows the abilities to be global without the problems of combined energy pools.

It's definitely an interesting idea, but that by itself doesn't remove the main problem. If the abilities are super-useful, people will just mass enough Dark Pylons to be able to cast them all as much as they need to. No hard choices. If the abilities aren't that great, people will only ever use Proton Charge, which becomes busywork.

I'm going to stand firm on the idea that we need either a big increase in DP cost, or something like the global energy pool that limits casting. My preference is for something like the global pool, because finding the right break-point of price vs. ability power will be very tricky.

[n00bonicPlague]

Try this:

• global energy pool
• fixed max energy bank
• increase recharge rate per each DP
• fixed maximum recharge rate

Here's how it would basically work. Your first DP has an energy bank of 200 and an energy recharge rate of 1eps. You add another DP -- the energy bank is still 200 but the rate increases to 2eps. Another makes it 3eps...and so on...but then it maxes out at 10eps (with 10 Dark Pylons). Any more DPs would only increase the number of places you can cast, which to a point would become a waste. You could also try having the casting range of each DP increase as more are built. Lore argument for the cap would be that higher recharge rates would make the DPs unstable (same for higher ranges) and thus cause some catastrophic detonation (black hole? lolz).

Some other ideas:

• make the DP permanently cloaked
• the ability to cloak buildings (active ability)
• that "Mirage" ability (though complicated, I kinda like it)
• a "Recall" ability that works only within a pylon's influence

If the "cloak building" and "psionic rift" abilities were added to the DP, then the Mothership could drop its passive building cloak (make it just for ground and air units) and its ability to warp to friendly buildings in exchange for some more unique abilities.

[ManjiSanji]

I support the Recall ability, though I do have a question: when you say only within a pylon power, does that mean that the units being recalled must be within pylon power?

That would make the Phase Prism all the more useful. Neat.

[SpiderBrigade]

Nice, I hadn't thought of boosting the recharge rate. I like it. As far as the abilities, since the problem with massed proxy DPs is solved by the global energy, they can be either base-related or combat-related now. Ideally there would be both types, to make the choices interesting.

[ArcherofAiur]

Recall on the pylon is a cool idea. Only thing is that its basically the same thing as the nydus worm (universal transportation on player controlled land).

[PsiWarp]

I've been meaning to suggest this idea, I wonder how it'll work out?

Nexus gains "Convert Dark Pylon" ability that costs 50 energy, targets any existing Pylon. The Pylon warps into a Dark Pylon permanently, with the characteristics of the Pylon (psionic matrix, supply) but with 100 less shields (like current). Due to the relative mass and form of both Pylon and Dark Pylon, the conversion is nearly instantaneous (3 seconds).

The Dark Pylon will continue powering structures and allow Warp-In, with addition of 200 energy (starting 50). However, its abilities are mostly activate-deactivate.

Null Shield (0 energy): By activating the Null Shield, the Dark Pylon may not cast other abilities, and it has a cooldown of 5 seconds for activation and deactivation. It casts a radius of cloaking around the Dark Pylon, at the same size as the Pylon power, that cloaks both structure and units. Pylon Power is deactivated when Null Shield is active.
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Gravity Array (50 energy): Fluctuates target area with alternating gravity. Ally and Player unit movement speed increases, while enemy unit movement speed decreases. The effect is that, whatever unit that enters the gravity field will continuously move through either at high (player) or slow (enemy) speed, at whatever direction it move towards.

In short, it's a Warp Speed ability. A unit may never stop moving inside the AoE, but if its yours or ally's unit, it will speed through the field (its like Zealot Charge, except only AoE specific). If it's an enemy unit, it will go through the field very slowly, even though it can still be commanded to change direction. Note, this ability does not affect allies in any way.

And naturally, Probes move faster as well! Since they would auto-pathfind to the mineral node and Nexus, harvesting speed stays the same but return trips will nearly double in effect (if it's the same as Zealot charge speed, subject to balance). Placing a few gravity flux in between a field of minerals and a Nexus will increase Probe movement by a lot, one flux is slightly larger than the size of a mineral node.

Small Area of Effect, ranged ability, ground only, units may not attack from within AoE due to continuous movement. A gravity flux lasts about 30 seconds, must be maintained by Dark Pylon.
- - -

All subject to balance, feedback appreciated


-Psi

[ArcherofAiur]

And naturally, Probes move faster as well! Since they would auto-pathfind to the mineral node and Nexus, harvesting speed stays the same but return trips will nearly double in effect (if it's the same as Zealot charge speed, subject to balance). Placing a few gravity flux in between a field of minerals and a Nexus will increase Probe movement by a lot, one flux is slightly larger than the size of a mineral node.

The thing about increasing probe speed is that it only increases resource gathering before mineral patch saturation.