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Thread: Marauder Range?

  1. #1

    Default Marauder Range?

    Anyone else impressed by the marauders ridiculous range?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    As a toss player i wouldent mind them nerfing it ^^,
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
    - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    Junior Member
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    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Range is the one the key characteristics of Terran... its kinda there thing. =D

  4. #4

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Lower its attack speed kthxbai.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    Lower its attack speed kthxbai.
    it's already low,tanks fire 50% faster...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Stimmed, they fire faster than any tank...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Stimmed, they fire faster than any tank...
    see now,that's kind of a debate-according to the sc2armory, marauders have 1.5 attack speed,while tanks have 1.04,SO if stimmed does increase attack speed by 50%,then the attack speed is faster by some mear 4%,at the cost of 20hp...I really don't think they should decrease their attack speed even more...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    I'll copy paste my own calculations here to give you an idea as to why Marauders may need a slight nerf, or if not, why immortals need a definite buff:

    Quote Originally Posted by PW
    I understand the explanation and reasoning behind the blues to make the above changes; I'm even happy that Void Rays got the slight nerf. I was relying too heavily on them to win PvT, and it just wasn't fair to terrans.

    What I don't get is : Why not address the problem with Marauders? Why do I need to get expensive glass cannons to deal with a base 1.5 tier unit that's much much cheaper and builds much faster than said glass cannons (i.e immortals) They're supposed to be the counter, but they die too fast.

    The Solution?

    * The hardened shields can be given more armor
    * The Immortal's HP can be buffed a little to allow them to survive longer without shields. But, not so much that they just bowl the marauders away. It shud be a fairly equal exchange:

    Please confirm this:
    1 Marauder is 100 mins 25 gas (?) medium fire speed (when Stimmed+Slowassive)
    1 Immortal is 250 mins 100 gas slow fire speed (no enhancements but bonus dmg)

    To get a marauder you get a 150mins Barracks + 50/50 tech lab (?)
    You upgrade 50/50 for slow
    You upgrade 100/100 for stim
    TOTAL = 350 mins 200 gas

    To get an immortal out you get a 150mins Gate + 150 mins Core + 200/100 Robo
    No upgrades for Immortals
    TOTAL = 500 mins 100 gas


    This is very linear of course, since I haven't factored in any observers, 1 stalker for potential reapers (lol?) or Chronoboost, and on Terran's side: The longer range (?) of Marauders vs Immortals, and the fact that building 1 Immortal = 2.5 marauders cost-wise, with extra 62.5 gas leftover for other tech.

    In terms of Damage/Sec though, I think there is a huge gap and that is what needs addressing:

    Marauders do 10+10 (armored) dmg every volley. With stim, they do 2x as much damage in the same amount of time, i.e it makes them hit (10+10) x 2 = 40 damage each when stimmed!

    Since 2.5 marauders is apporximately 1 Immortal (for argument's sake), This means that for every Immortal that does 50 damage to armored, there are 2.5 marauders doing 2.5x40 damage = 100 !!

    What does protoss have apart from micro-intensive Forcefields to directly counter them? Zealots melt too fast for immortals and sentries to do the rest of the damage, and often, it is almost impossible to match unit count for cost if you go for Immortals. Getting that Robo/Immortal (and obs) prevents you as a Protoss to get enough zealot/sentry to support the 1 Immortal or (if you're lucky) 2 on close start positions and small maps like Steppes.

    A slight buff to Immortal HP or to armor of Hardened Shields would even the field out more, esp when the follow up is medvacs and sometimes just pure ghost marauder (and some mixed rines).

    I'm not just complaining here, I'm trying to find out what exactly does Protoss have early on to deal with fast marauders that can stim and slow already slow units like Immortals and zealots without charge.
    In response to Sila-Slayer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sila-Slayer
    zealot/sentry is an effective marauder counter once you can forcefield trap.
    immortals are an effective counter if they have a good defense line, they have high firepower but are quite vulnerable to stimmed marauder focus.
    void rays obviousloy win.
    storm is deadly

    just make not-stalkers and macro well [make stlalkers if he's going SUPER fast proxy rax but other no] and you will beat marauders effectively.

    You are also comparing cost of upgrades to cost of teching to robo. When you want gate/core for other units, only cost of robo can be counted.
    I respond as such:

    Quote Originally Posted by PW
    But, that is the issue... Terrans will ALWAYS go for the upgrades no matter what, and that makes them inherently part of the cost. that's why they're included that way in my calculations. The Barracks is also used to make rines which I completely omitted just as I ommitted Zealot sentry from the gates.

    Protoss are different from Terran quite a bit in the respect that you HAVE to get gate > core, and against marauders, you HAVE to get Robo and Immortals. So their cost is inherent as well. Note that I included the cost for the Barracks and tech lab, just as I did the cost for the gate and core. What I mean is that it is already MORE expensive for Protoss to get that Immortal out, which hurts the Protoss player if that thing is too fragile to withstand Marauder fire, but there is no other alternative.

    If I want to survive the coming battles, FF is way inadequate even if I have equal mass of Marauder-rine / zealot-sentry. You gotta be able to FF before your zealots melt to death, but they just die too fast... The Immortal tends to become the focus of marauders if in range, and that allows some zealots to survive longer and take advantage of the FF blocks, but do you see what I mean? It is pivotal to get the Immortal, but at the same time, it is the most hurtful move for a Protoss' utilizing of resources to tech to it. The cost is prohibitive but at the same time the unit is essential...

    I started trying out more storm builds, but after the marauder mass gets bigger, the storms are less and less effective esp with medivacs. HTs don't get to feedback the medivacs since the T will almost always pull them behind. At most you'd get 2 out of a group of 5 in mid-late game. But those remaining 3 are enough to keep enough marauders alive through storm.

    I agree that Macro is a crucial factor in this match-up, and I recognize my failings. However, in games where macro is almost equal, where it is basically tech vs tech, marauders always win... If I ever win it is because he decided to skip a few marauders (2-3 which would have been equivalent to that extra immortal) to get something like a Raven or Banshees or a Thor. That 1 extra Immortal tilts the tide.

    The cost is not equivalent, however, by a long shot.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    Quote Originally Posted by arthas View Post
    see now,that's kind of a debate-according to the sc2armory, marauders have 1.5 attack speed,while tanks have 1.04,SO if stimmed does increase attack speed by 50%,then the attack speed is faster by some mear 4%,at the cost of 20hp...I really don't think they should decrease their attack speed even more...
    Yeah, but how many Marauders can you build for the price of a Tank? Cost-effectivity.

  10. #10
    Hoywolf's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: Marauder Range?

    I do agree that range is a terrain thing, but maybe their damage should get reduced a tad bit, they are easy to mass and are strong ground units.

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