Sc2 balance.

[whitefire]

Im not sure if any one else has noticed this but, there are only a small number of people playing the beta that means that the stats for each race and unit are skewed because not all players are of the same skill level. True that wont be the case when the game is released either but in the beta there could be a greater number of unskilled players and therefore an over powered unit or strat could go unnoticed because of poor exicution or impropper match making (like placing a bronze player against a gold.)

From what Ive read and heard the majority of the balance changes were unnessisary or came completely out of nowhere and blizzard has been accused for not listening to the community and only using stats for balance. If this is the case then I would like to inform both blizzard and the community that stats arnt as reliable as people think due to the vast number of variables involved to get those numbers.

I would like to point out that the real balance changes wont happen until after the game has been released. Some of the known issues like the Marauder being over powered and the zealot being useless in the early game or the lack of zerg diversity and its diminishing racial identity will begin to show up in the stats once millions of people are playing the game instead of just thousands.

I would also like to point out that Protoss had been nerfed every patch which is fine because there was some issues with units being to strong. Unfortunatly Blizz hasnt added enough buffs to fill in the weaknesses the nerfs have caused. An example of this would be the immortal timing push. Yes it was powerful but because of that build time nerf the immortal is now less of a counter to the marauder timing push done by terrans. The zerg roach supply nerf had a simmilar effect. Yes the roach is still useful but it has effectivly cut the entire zerg army in half despite the fact that roaches are very easily countered my marauders and immortals. The point im trying to get across is the fact that every buff and nerf has effects outside of the intented situations that warrented the change in the first place. an example of this is the stim pack buff. yes it made marines more useful however it also made marauder pushes stronger which is countering the pathetic concussive shells nerf whic hwas implimented to weaken of stop early marauder pushes.

Just though I'd put out my views on how some of the balance is occurring with out counter balances.

[Norfindel]

But, most of the people playing in beta was chosen in semi-random way, so it's likely that have more than enough unskilled players.

The Immortal sucks balls vs the Marauder. You're never going to have enough to counter that cheap-as-dirt OP unit. Better to send Chargelots with Sentry support, i think.

[DemolitionSquid]

But, most of the people playing in beta was chosen in semi-random way, so it's likely that have more than enough unskilled players.

The Immortal sucks balls vs the Marauder. You're never going to have enough to counter that cheap-as-dirt OP unit. Better to send Chargelots with Sentry support, i think.

The Immortal does high damage but can't take as many hits as it should. You should have 2-4 in your army supporting those Zealots who are tanking.

[whitefire]

actually. The quicker you can get immortals the more you will have. Yes Marauders are dirt cheap and totally op but 5 immortals stand a much better chance than 3. One popular terran strat is marauder/thor and with the FF nerf that combo renders sentries null and void. One of hte reasons why Marauders are over powered is because they benifit from everything the terran player dose. Be it M3 or marauder/thor, hell you can even get away with marauder/raven. there has to be more of a downside to getting thors than a lack of aint air. As for zealots, Im not sure if this was changed or not but Concussive shells will stop zealots from charging.

[minerals]

OP: This has not changed with well executed micro even charging zealots will be pretty well countered. Concussive shells is a dirt cheap 50 50 upgrade with like a ~35sec research time. I play terran and early mm push with about 5 marauders and 3 marines is hard to beat.

[Norfindel]

The Immortal does high damage but can't take as many hits as it should. You should have 2-4 in your army supporting those Zealots who are tanking.

So, basically, i must send the Zealots to soak damage for the Immortals (which sounds like kind of a joke).
I assume i need to research Charge, also, as otherwise the Terran can kite Zealots and Immortals like forever?
All of this while the Terran double-pumps Marines and builds cheap Marauders.
On most maps i can at least block the ramp and shoot down with ranged units, but in maps like Kulas Ravine, it's even more difficult.
I don't even imagine what do the Zerg players do against M&M&M.

[DemolitionSquid]

So, basically, i must send the Zealots to soak damage for the Immortals (which sounds like kind of a joke).

Yeah pretty much.

I assume i need to research Charge, also, as otherwise the Terran can kite Zealots and Immortals like forever?

In the same way he needs to research Stim and Shield and Shells.

All of this while the Terran double-pumps Marines and builds cheap Marauders.

Which why I LOVE LOVE LOVE Templar vs Terran right now. Zealot/Sentry in to HT is SICK.

On most maps i can at least block the ramp and shoot down with ranged units, but in maps like Kulas Ravine, it's even more difficult.

Everyone knows KR is a shitty map.

[Norfindel]

In the same way he needs to research Stim and Shield and Shells.

Uh, yes, but they have the upgrades right in the Lab. I need to build the Core, wait it to finish, and then the Council.

What i don't understand, is how Blizzard "felt that they overnerfed the Marauder" with the Concussive Shell upgrade. To begin with, it slows units too much, and doesn't even requires any micro at all, as it's autocasted. The only autocasted attack ability in the whole game.

Everyone knows KR is a shitty map.

Yeah, i will seriously consider voting against it.

[Drake Clawfang]

I find it odd that the Marauder's concussive shells only cost 50/50 too. It needs a cost increase to balance out the Marauder because as is it is definitely too strong, especially since pretty much every unit it's gonna face in the early game is vulnerable to its effects. Maybe if the Marauder was 50 gas instead of just 25, and the shell upgrade was 100/100 or even 150/150, would help a bit?

[protoswarrior]

I think concussive shells are crucial to marauder survival in mid game. In early game, it is a lil too strong. I agree Drake that a nerf is in order, but 100/100 is too much. Maybe making it cost 50/100 pressures the T to choose between making the extra 2 marauders or the 1 very beneficial upgrade which becomes staple in mid game.

The current "nerf" on concussive shells is way too accessible.

Another way is to keep the cost but make the time more like 45-50 secs build time.