Marine vs Zealot unarmed

[Norfindel]

And yet, we've never seen that happen.

Yeah, that's because, you know, the Protoss are fictional... <_<... >_>...

Jokes apart, if you have so much psionic power that your eyes continuously glow, i bet it's fairly easy to stun a guy that has no psi power at all, considering that "The Protoss are such powerful psychics that they can inadvertently send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to other life forms. With careful training, High Templar learn to focus these ripples into a Storm of raw psychic energy that is capable of literally tearing apart the minds of lesser species."

[Kimera757]

Jokes apart, if you have so much psionic power that your eyes continuously glow

Many zerg have glowing eyes too, and beyond a psychic link have no power.

i bet it's fairly easy to stun a guy that has no psi power at all, considering that "The Protoss are such powerful psychics that they can inadvertently send out psychic "ripples" that are disruptive to other life forms.

I have to wonder, if a zealot can do that, why go to the trouble of throwing a hydralisk through a bunker wall? Why not just stun it, kill it, and not get its shields zapped? Could it be because it's really hard to unleash these "inadvertent" ripples?

(It doesn't help that there haven't been many terran vs protoss clashes in lore, and many of those were in-game where that kind of thing just doesn't happen.) But regular Khalai, cut off from the Khala, definitely did not have this ability (see Do No Harm). However, as they've been cut off from the Khala, it doesn't really help the argument.

I think both protoss in general and ghosts in particular get "overblown" in fanon. People want them to be cool, and for some reason that means being a heck of a lot stronger.

[BusinessMonkey]

If the marine would win, the Xel'Naga might have chosen the Terrans instead of Protoss to begin with... Pretty lame standoff to begin with.

[Hawki]

All things considered, the xel'naga don't even seem to know that humanity existed, at least up to the point of their fall to the zerg.

'Course there's the theory that Routhe=Duran, and having terrans in close proximity to the protoss, but...meh. In the SC universe, humans tend to be interlopers at best and cannon fodder at worst in regards to the greater scheme of things.

[l33telboi]

Just wondering, is there any info on how strong the marine is with his power suit?

I believe there have been a few indications as to their lift strength, but not much more then so. IIRC the Ghost novel states that marines could easily push off a ton of debris from their backs as if it was nothing, after they got caught in a crumbling building. Then I think there was an instance in the first Dark Templar novel where two marines are carrying a one ton box between them.

Of course, this doesn't translate well into a fight, since speed is a big factor in that too, and not just raw strength.

I have to wonder, if a zealot can do that, why go to the trouble of throwing a hydralisk through a bunker wall? Why not just stun it, kill it, and not get its shields zapped? Could it be because it's really hard to unleash these "inadvertent" ripples?

There have been a number of indications in the novels that would support the inadvertent ripples thing. It's often stated that a Protoss shouting can harm lesser critters, such as humans and even Zerg. In Queen of Blades we see this a few times, like when Raynor is watching Zeratul and Tassadar, and Tassadar suddenly screams something to Zeratul. The scream is said to be very painful to Raynor. Later on in the same novel, it's said that simply by speaking, Zeratul is causing lesser Zerg to drop dead all around him. This same thing is echoed in the Dark Templar trilogy, when one of the guards at the warp gate shouts 'Halt!' (or something) at Dahl, and she almost loses consciousness because of it. In the novel earlier, one Protoss was capable of rendering her unconscious (and claims that he could've just as easily killed her) via telepathy.

I went back to look for a quote on this, since I remember fairly well where it was said in the Twilight:

HALT!

The order that slammed into her brain was so intense that Rosemary gasped and stumbled, falling into one of the protoss who had also come to a stop beside her. He caught her quickly and steadied her.

Information flooded her brain, a cacophony of mental shouting and explanations, and she bit back a gasp of pain. The protoss next to her squeezed her arm reassuringly. Good God, was this how it was all the time? Until this moment Rosemary hadn't fully appreciated how much Zamara had shielded her--

The question, of course, becomes why they don't seem to use it in combat. Khastianna provides one possible explanation, when she says she has to lower her shield in order to break the resoc on Lim. Could be these ripples don't get through shields. Or it could be that screaming quickly drains the psionic energy from someone, thus it's not preferable to use in combat situations, where maintaining psi-blades and shields would be a high priority.

EDIT: Oh, and a minor correction, the Zealot didn't throw a Hydralisk through a bunker wall, the Hydralisk hit the Zealot through a metal wall with its tail. The Zealot just picked up the thing and threw it (just not through a wall).

[Kimera757]

There have been a number of indications in the novels that would support the inadvertent ripples thing. It's often stated that a Protoss shouting can harm lesser critters, such as humans and even Zerg.

Protoss don't have mouths. They can't shout.

In Queen of Blades we see this a few times, like when Raynor is watching Zeratul and Tassadar, and Tassadar suddenly screams something to Zeratul. The scream is said to be very painful to Raynor.

That was Kerrigan shouting, not a protoss.

Later on in the same novel, it's said that simply by speaking, Zeratul is causing lesser Zerg to drop dead all around him.

Zeratul is not a normal protoss. Neither was Alzadar (that was the protoss who dropped Dahl). It's like all that ghost fiction; those ghosts are more powerful than the typical ghost.

I went back to look for a quote on this, since I remember fairly well where it was said in the Twilight:

The stuff about the gate is the closest to that hypothesis, but wasn't Dahl being shouted at by multiple protoss?

EDIT: Oh, and a minor correction, the Zealot didn't throw a Hydralisk through a bunker wall, the Hydralisk hit the Zealot through a metal wall with its tail. The Zealot just picked up the thing and threw it (just not through a wall).

Good point. Still, tossing an 800-pound creature is pretty damn impressive.

[l33telboi]

Protoss don't have mouths. They can't shout.

Telepathically. I should probably have stated as much, but they're very capable of 'talking' and 'shouting' telepathically.

That was Kerrigan shouting, not a protoss.

It's possible it happened when Kerrigan shouted too, but I'm pretty positive that Raynor had trouble when Tassadar shouted to Zeratul too. Here, let's see if I can find that bit of info. Right, here it is:

“You!” His mental cry was the equivalent of a bellow, and Raynor winced as the telepathic shout struck him between the eyes.

It's not targeted at Raynor, it's from Tassadar to Zeratul, but Raynor feels pain just because he's nearby.

Zeratul is not a normal protoss. Neither was Alzadar (that was the protoss who dropped Dahl). It's like all that ghost fiction; those ghosts are more powerful than the typical ghost.

I wouldn't say all the ghosts in fiction are more powerful then the typical ghosts are. Some of them, sure. Zeratul is certainly more powerful then most Protoss, but Alzadar? Was he ever said to be so? In any case, all these point to telepathic shouting being painful, and sometimes even dangerous to Terrans. I'd reckon a powerful protoss would be able to shout 'harder', but that wouldn't mean that a normal protoss shouting would be harmless. It is, after all, something that's featured fairly regularly in the novels, as another example:

With no lips to move, no mouths to form words, all Protoss communicated through tight, telepathic bursts. The Judicator focused his conversation closely enough that no eavesdroppers could pick up even a hint of his sentences, though at times the mental spike was so sharp that it caused Koronis a faint twinge of pain. He showed none of it, however, simply turned and listened to what the Judicator had to say.

The stuff about the gate is the closest to that hypothesis, but wasn't Dahl being shouted at by multiple protoss?

Not that I know. The first order of 'HALT!' seems to have come from one Protoss, and that's what seems to have affected her the most, the rest of the interrogation seems to have gone back and forth between the group with Dahl and the Protoss guarding the gate.

Good point. Still, tossing an 800-pound creature is pretty damn impressive.

It is, yes.

[Gradius]

Zealots don't just crush minds because that's not what they're trained for. One Zealot could singlehandedly destroy 3-4 Marines by himself. A Zealot trains to use his psionic abilities for augmenting strength and speed. How much effort would it take him to do something he's not trained for? It took Nova some effort to kill people, but after training she could surgically take down many people with but a thought.

A High Templar on the other hand, really does crush minds. Now, what's the difference between a Zealot and a High Templar? Is it their power level? Not always. It's made clear in the manual that Zealots are simply those who are starting on the Path of Ascension, and that High Templar are former Zealots who have "graduated". When Zealots graduate, that's when they start training how to crush minds & use psi storm, etc.

So again, it's because of their training that we don't see Zealots just squash minds.

[//MavericK\\]

'Course there's the theory that Routhe=Duran, and having terrans in close proximity to the protoss, but...meh. In the SC universe, humans tend to be interlopers at best and cannon fodder at worst in regards to the greater scheme of things.

Off topic a bit...

Woah...now I never thought of that! But that would be extremely interesting if Duran turned out to be Routhe. If that were the case, he's been playing everyone for a long, long time.

This is one speculation that I think deserves some serious consideration.

[Kimera757]

Telepathically. I should probably have stated as much, but they're very capable of 'talking' and 'shouting' telepathically.

It's possible it happened when Kerrigan shouted too, but I'm pretty positive that Raynor had trouble when Tassadar shouted to Zeratul too. Here, let's see if I can find that bit of info. Right, here it is:

It's not targeted at Raynor, it's from Tassadar to Zeratul, but Raynor feels pain just because he's nearby.

Ah... but you're still dealing with two high-powered protoss there.

I wouldn't say all the ghosts in fiction are more powerful then the typical ghosts are.

Not all, no. The one in Orientation that tried to kill Corbin Phash was pretty weak, but then most ghosts that last more than a few pages (Sarco Angelini, Colin Phash, Sarah Kerrigan, virtually any ghost you can name) are quite powerful psychics. (And even a few unnamed ones, like the one that showed up in StarCraft comic #4.)

Some of them, sure. Zeratul is certainly more powerful then most Protoss, but Alzadar? Was he ever said to be so?

I go that distinct impression, or, more to the point, the impression that he was the only protoss in his attack group who could have done that. (And he's a named character, and badass enough to match Ladranix in combat, and he'd gotten a power-up of sorts for being a Tal'darim. Etc.)

I'd reckon a powerful protoss would be able to shout 'harder', but that wouldn't mean that a normal protoss shouting would be harmless. It is, after all, something that's featured fairly regularly in the novels, as another example:

As a named Judicator, he might be more powerful than the typical protoss. Even so, shouting in someone's ear (especially if distance seems to be irrelevant) is going to be painful and possibly disorienting.

I guess I'm saying, I don't think protoss zealots can reliably "stun" people by using their psychic energy that way. Due to lack of training, they simply channel their considerable energies with artificial assistance (shield generators, psionic blades). I don't think I've seen a "normal" zealot ever use such an ability, even in cases (like two zealots vs one hydralisk) where it would be useful, even if it was time-consuming.