Nukes as second teir?

[Gifted]

Ghosts are being more useful in all matchups. EMP being shifted to them create a new use against Protoss while their abilities against Biological units has improved their use against the zerg. In doing so, I wanted to re-evaluate the ease of obtaining and using Nukes and was surprised to see it essentially "second tier". Please understand that all information is provided at this time and may have changed due to balance.

Tech Basics:
Ghost Production: Barracks -> Ghost Academy (Tech Lab on Barracks)
Nuke Production: Barracks -> Factory

Production Basics:

Barracks:
Min/Gas Cost: 150/0
Build Time: 65

Tech Lab:
Min/Gas Cost: 50/75
Build Time: 30

Factory:
Min/Gas Cost: 200/100
Build Time: 65

Ghost Academy:
Min/Gas Cost: 150/100
Build Time: 70

Ghost:
Min/Gas Cost: 100/200
Build Time: 33

Nuke:
Min/Gas Cost: 100/100
Build Time: ?

Cloak Upgrade:
Min/Gas Cost: 150/150
Build Time: 90

Strategy Discussion:
According to the Fomos Preview, 2 gas geysers is the equivelent of 1.5 geysers in SC1. This can help judge how fast we can pull this build order off..

After evaluating the resources required to build this as a rush strategy it looks as if the timing of it would be near the same as a Wraith Build in current SC. Map selection and scouting would determine if the cloak upgrade was required.

If not used as a rush, looking at the buildings involved, it is still very viable/easy to get nukes rolling along with whatever build you want with these buildings. I was curious if the ease of nukes with the information we have now warrants some interesting observations or discussion...

[Runei]

Neural Parasite a ghost, do I get to nuke you now?

[Gifted]

Neural Parasite a ghost, do I get to nuke you now?

Good question, My initial balance reaction would be no, but in theory, it would make sense to do so.

[unentschieden]

No unless you somehow manage to optain a armed Ghost Academy. Same as the original Mind control.

The biggest factor is that Ghosts apparently can paint for nukes from Bunkers.

[MattII]

With the old Nuke I'd have said a definite no, but with this new nuke (300+200 vs. buildings), I'm more open to it, provided they remove the ridiculous 2/3 bonus vs. buildings, I mean what's the big difference between say a Siege Tank and a Factory in a practical sense (same goes for the Baneling)?

[Nicol Bolas]

You'd have to skip the Ghost's cloaking to pull off a Nuke rush. And even then, I'm not sure the results would be worthwhile.

No, better to just add nukes to a viable strategy.

I mean what's the big difference between say a Siege Tank and a Factory in a practical sense (same goes for the Baneling)?

It's called "game balance".

[Pandonetho]

It's not so bad. 300 Damage will kill most units anyway besides those with more than 300 hp.

It's just that since the nuke is so much more accessible now having it do 2/3 damage to something is OP.

Although, I'm not fond of the idea of requiring 5 nukes just to kill a hatchery.

[MattII]

It's just that since the nuke is so much more accessible now having it do 2/3 damage to something is OP.

No that's 2/3 bonus (in this case 300 standard damage +200 bonus vs. buildings).

[SpiderBrigade]

yeah, Pandonetho the damage bonus is actually a way that they reduced the power of the nuke since it's lower-level now. Before it did the same damage to everything and was basically a one-hit kill against every unit in the game (and many buildings as well).

Now that it gets bonus damage against buildings, that makes it less powerful against units, especially the high-end capital units (carriers, ultralisks, etc).

[Runei]

5) If the Zerg Infestor uses neural parasite on a unit, will that unit still have all upgrades / abilities if the player researched them? - 5c012ch3d
Yes, the parasited unit will have all upgrades / abilities.
http://www.sc2armory.com/forums/topic/6974

Im still curious if I will get a nuke because that would be so easy to just sneak/crawl (i think infestors can move while burrowed right?) on an idle ghost and jack a nuke real fast.