Can there really be "meatshields" in SC2?

[n00bonicPlague]

In almost every game that I can think of, meatshields (tanks) had some sort of ability or gimmick that forced them to take hits and/or receive more damage than other units. I think (think, mind you) the general consensus in StarCraft is that the inclusion of such gimmicks and abilities would be unacceptable. So, I don't see how units like the Thor and Ultralisk can really be tanks. If it is acceptable, however, then there are some various solutions that in my opinion could work out just fine for SC2, because I don't think merely being big and full of HP is going to cut it. Many of these ideas have been suggested since SC2's announcement.

One idea is to turn units meant for tanking into mobile LoS blockers. This would cause the enemy to compensate by either microing his units like crazy so he can see the desired targets or just getting some air units to do the job. Another idea is to turn such tanks into shot-blockers. If a ranged unit tries to shoot an enemy unit on the other side of an enemy tank, then the shot will actually hit the tank instead of the other unit. This would cause greater need for micro on the part of the opponent as well. Still another idea would be to allow smaller units to run and/or hide underneath tanks in order to escape from the enemy. The Colossus already has this to some degree, but it isn't much of a tank. Something like letting Zerglings run under Ultralisks would be cool.

Anyway, your thoughts? Can there really be tanks in SC2?

[MajinX]

the broodlings/broodlords are meat shields, their entire design is being a meatshield ranged support. there are also ravens for defense drone, so u have to go for those or the ravens and therefore they are acting like meat sheilds. for protoss u have sentries and their defensive spells and altho not literally they provide the same effect as a meat shield.

[KadajSouba]

"Tank" units in SC are considered those with highest Hp. And thats it.

We could consider units with armor, but you can upgrade all your units to get armor, and that doesn't turns them into tanks right???

I dont think Blizzad likes the idea of a mobile LoS blocker, because that adds the "random" factor to the game, and they are scared to hell about that. Thats why if you get shot from a cliff, you just dont see your attacker. Your LoS is completely absolutely blocked.

Something like letting Zerglings run under Ultralisks would be cool.

Ahaha that would be awesome.

[Eligor]

One idea is to turn units meant for tanking into mobile LoS blockers. This would cause the enemy to compensate by either microing his units like crazy so he can see the desired targets or just getting some air units to do the job. Another idea is to turn such tanks into shot-blockers. If a ranged unit tries to shoot an enemy unit on the other side of an enemy tank, then the shot will actually hit the tank instead of the other unit. This would cause greater need for micro on the part of the opponent as well.

Very much in favour, great idea (anything for greater tactical diversity). It would also further define the uses of melee and ranged units (making melee units more effective in such circumstances).

I dont think Blizzad likes the idea of a mobile LoS blocker, because that adds the "random" factor to the game, and they are scared to hell about that. Thats why if you get shot from a cliff, you just dont see your attacker. Your LoS is completely absolutely blocked.

No more random than the Mothership and Arbiter's portable cloaking fields.

[ManjiSanji]

I would certainly like for certain units like the Ultralisk and Thor to operate as meatshields, and LoS blockers or shot blockers would be a great idea if it means I'll use them more (particularly the Ultralisk).

Hell, it even makes sense.
"Oh, I can't shoot those Hydralisks because they're behind that gigantic Ultralisk. I need to kill it to shoot them."

And I would love for Zerglings to be able to run under Ultralisks; it would definitely make them more useful, as any time I've tried to use Ultras, they just seem to mill about the rest of my units and don't serve much purpose.

[Pandonetho]

I really liked the design of the races in SC1.

The Protoss never had any tank units, but they had strong soldiers. Zealots could take punishment but still died fast. Other units were glass cannons.

The Terrans had NO meat shields, they were an entire race of glass cannons. Deal tons of damage but die fast.

The Zerg were the varied ones, ranging from the basic Zergling to the Ultralisk which was the true definition of tank.

Basically, the Ultralisk was really the only real tank in SC1.

Now in SC2, they're trying to throw in ridiculous tanks everywhere. All the Terran units have had an HP buff of some sort, and the Thor is the new Terran tank. The Protoss have the Immortal, and the Zerg have Broodlords now as well, in addition to their ridiculously sized Ultralisks.

However, one thing I've noticed was that things die MUCH faster than they do in SC1, despite all the HP buffs.

[n00bonicPlague]

the broodlings/broodlords are meat shields, their entire design is being a meatshield ranged support. there are also ravens for defense drone, so u have to go for those or the ravens and therefore they are acting like meat sheilds. for protoss u have sentries and their defensive spells and altho not literally they provide the same effect as a meat shield.

There's a great example. The Raven's point-defense drone has the ability to block damage that would normally be received by other units. Just goes to show what you have to have in order to tank: a special ability.

"Tank" units in SC are considered those with highest Hp. And thats it.

We could consider units with armor, but you can upgrade all your units to get armor, and that doesn't turns them into tanks right???

But neither of those types are true tanks because they can't force the damage upon themselves and/or directly prevent other units from getting hurt. All the opponent has to do is shoot past them.

I dont think Blizzad likes the idea of a mobile LoS blocker, because that adds the "random" factor to the game, and they are scared to hell about that. Thats why if you get shot from a cliff, you just dont see your attacker. Your LoS is completely absolutely blocked.

There is some randomness to it, but that's due to the randomness of the players, not due to some game mechanic. Player randomness is part of what makes the game competitive. Such an LoS mechanic would increase room for more micro, as one player would try to see and the other would try to block.

Ahaha that would be awesome.

lol yeah. Letting your Ultras walk right over your own Zerg infantry would be very helpful and would make the Ultralisk extremely useful in making your infantry very difficult to hit.

[KadajSouba]

However, one thing I've noticed was that things die MUCH faster than they do in SC1, despite all the HP buffs.

True. But the reason behind that is the new damage system. In SC, damage was reduced depending on the type of unit.

In SC2 it happens the opposite: damage is the same against all units, and it even gets increased with the bonus system. I mean, tanks now deal 60 damage against anything. Surviving to that its freaking imposible. Unless you have your Hardened shields

[senervo]

well, the immortal was orginally though to be a tank, right...?
at least for hard-hitters they were but they can also be easily defeated, thanks to the ghost's emp...

i guess most of the units meant to be used for tanking are too easily countered or can simply get ignored...

[SaZun]

I would certainly like for certain units like the Ultralisk and Thor to operate as meatshields, and LoS blockers or shot blockers would be a great idea if it means I'll use them more (particularly the Ultralisk).

Hell, it even makes sense.
"Oh, I can't shoot those Hydralisks because they're behind that gigantic Ultralisk. I need to kill it to shoot them."

If its going to work that way then it needs to do the reverse as well. Your hydralisks can't shoot because your own unit is in the way. Same shit happends in real life. Your squadmate crosses your line of site and you have to drop your weapon til he passes.