Roach should get Armor or Regen back?

[flak4321]

I support the regen ability. I find it that roaches have became a tier 1 version of the hydra minus the air attacking ability as of the recent patches. As a terran player, I've found it quite easy to kill roaches without many losses these days.

This is very visible from the replays. I wouldn't mind a buff intended to differentiate the Roach and Hydra a bit more. I wouldn't go for Regen though. I would rather give it straught line splash like the Hellion. After all, Immortals and Marauders both splash, I think, and Zerg seems lacking in splash attackers outside of the muta and Ultra.

[Sigel]

This is very visible from the replays. I wouldn't mind a buff intended to differentiate the Roach and Hydra a bit more. I wouldn't go for Regen though. I would rather give it straught line splash like the Hellion. After all, Immortals and Marauders both splash, I think, and Zerg seems lacking in splash attackers outside of the muta and Ultra.

I like the idea of giving them splash but there's a problem with hellion like splash...hellions have a range of 6 making there splash cool and usefull...the same can't work on a range 3 attack...

[fireax3]

True with their measily range of 3, but if Bliz makes it so that the roaches acid shot is more like toxic or something so it can splash to surrounding enemies. Like poisin kind of like a smaller radius of fungal growth (with out the stopping enemies with the goo.)

[Hoywolf]

Thats a good idea, maybe they put like a dot on the ground of something, that affects ground units only, thats pretty good.

going to the extreme they can spit out temp creep! thats not bad at all either!

[GnaReffotsirk]

I like the idea of giving them splash but there's a problem with hellion like splash...hellions have a range of 6 making there splash cool and usefull...the same can't work on a range 3 attack...

Yeah, but Roaches are semi-tanks, while hellions are somewhat weak with fast movement. So, their range plays well because of the speed. Roaches need to get close and so have must have the carapace for that to be effective, or burrow.

With the AoE, they can at least make a threat and force ranged to keep them at a distance as long as they can. Which they have a reason to now since the roach isn't that many, and has become weaker than their previous stats.

[Deathstar]

Either make roaches 1 food again, or buff hydras with more hp or armor. Roaches are still good, but I never think of making them now. They're too inflexible in combat, and with the 2 food cost, they're a bigger burden.

[RamiZ]

Either make roaches 1 food again, or buff hydras with more hp or armor. Roaches are still good, but I never think of making them now. They're too inflexible in combat, and with the 2 food cost, they're a bigger burden.

People are really making this out as a big problem, a lot bigger than it is. Roach are still really good, they aren't that good in late game cause you ain't able to mass them.

I can link you replay ZvT of two good players, where Terran went for Mech, and Zerg abused Roach Burrow harassment and won the game easy. Hydras are really ok too.

[protoswarrior]

I think the roach nerf was a buff to the overall zerg race cuz now what zergs can do is just FE tech to hydra den and macro out of 2 bases and crush a Protoss with pure unit numbers. No need to even ling...

[RamiZ]

I think the roach nerf was a buff to the overall zerg race cuz now what zergs can do is just FE tech to hydra den and macro out of 2 bases and crush a Protoss with pure unit numbers. No need to even ling...

What??? You can't call it a buff if you just strictly nerf something. Imagine if Zealot cost 150 instead of 100. Yeah, it is a buff because you can now totally skip Zealots, what crappy Logic is that?

Roach was too good late game, and after nerf it, and not buffing anything, you can't call it buff.

And good luck rushing to the Hydras without getting Roaches or Lings and get pushed to death by 5 Zealots and 3 Sentries every fucking game...

I am seeing so many Zergs doing Ling/Baneling instead of Roaches, because they don't think at all. The only time you should be getting Roaches is early game since patch 12...

Not saying Ling/Baneling sucks, cause they don't, it is pretty good strategy, but depends on what units is your opponent making, you can't go for it vs. Terran Mech, you will be eaten alive, and that is what most Zergs do today...

[flak4321]

I like the idea of giving them splash but there's a problem with hellion like splash...hellions have a range of 6 making there splash cool and usefull...the same can't work on a range 3 attack...

Yeah, but Roaches are semi-tanks, while hellions are somewhat weak with fast movement. So, their range plays well because of the speed. Roaches need to get close and so have must have the carapace for that to be effective, or burrow.

With the AoE, they can at least make a threat and force ranged to keep them at a distance as long as they can. Which they have a reason to now since the roach isn't that many, and has become weaker than their previous stats.

The only thing the roach nerf really does is make you make more overlords. True, you can only make about 70-75 alongside your drones and queens, but I've not seen a replay or stream where more than 40 have been on the filed at any one time.

Noting this, my suggestion of straight-line splash enhances the Roach with the intent of keeping it viable against MMM balls and Zealot groups. The firebat only had a range of 1.5 and slaughtered ling balls and was very well liked. Thus the 3 range on the Roach is acceptable with straight line splash and its tank role. Note that a Marauder takes up 1 range unit, so you would hit 3 in a line. On the same token, you could hit about 5-7 marines or about 4 SCVs.

I honestly also believe we haven't had enough time to adjust to this patch to react properly. Look at the nerf this way as an alternative: the chief remaining complaint against the roach was that it was too easy to mass and reached a critical point too early. Another complaint about Zerg in general was they could macro far too effectively, which compounded the massing issue. This nerf answers both issues. If you want roaches, you have to macro a bit more for lords. That's a very small yet effective change.

And since I know someone is going to ask it: why then did Idra not use his normal roach build in the recent round of the HDH tournament against NonY? My answer is a lack of practice time with the change. Even the pro players must have a second income source in case of losing streaks. He went with a strategy he knew (hydra/zling) to buy time to practice for the next round.