Patch 12 (version 0.14.0.15343)

[DemolitionSquid]

It is pretty much the same outcome even if you look it other way. Sentry is too good, buff Terran, Zerg is now bad, buff Zerg, now other Protoss units are bad, buff them, now again Protoss is imba, buff Terran etc. It will always end up that way if everything you do is buffing, that is the whole point.

If buffing was that good, than nerfs won't be even there. Of course there need to be proportion of buffs and nerfs for good balance. Some stuff needs buffs, some nerfs etc. You can't do just one of them and hope for good balanced game.

In SC2, there are more units that need some kind of tweaks, more than buffs or nerfs. Also, there were more units that needed nerfs than those that need buffs, but that doesn't mean that buffs aren't just as important as nerfs.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no legitimate excuse for nerfing, unless you screwed up your buffing first.

I guess I just don't design like Blizzard does. I don't start with something crazy and then try to tone it down, removing what was awesome in place of mediocre. I start small, and build it up, to limit the kind of disillusion we've gone through from SC2's reveal to now.

[mr. peasant]

I think it is worth remembering that stats are purely arbitrary figures. Does it make any difference if Marines have 45 hit points and deal 5 damage while Zerglings have 35 hit points and deal 5 damage or if Marines have 90 hit points and deal 10 damage while Zerglings have 70 hit points and deal 10 damage? At the end of the day, what matters is the relative difference in stats between the units. In other words, whether nerfing the overpowered units or powering others to match it, it doesn't matter.

[Noise]

What Mr Peasant said

[KadajSouba]

So far, SC2 balancing is reduced to stats changing. Something that anybody can do on the map editor. I mean really???? Are they telling us that they reached their creative limit????

[RamiZ]

So far, SC2 balancing is reduced to stats changing. Something that anybody can do on the map editor. I mean really???? Are they telling us that they reached their creative limit????

[Norfindel]

Demo, there's a limit on how "awesome" you can make a unit without shit happening. For example: Immortals eats Tanks alive, so to compensate win ratio, you make Hellions eat Light units alive, and at the end you have a bunch of very hard counters, with units dying en-masse without really much way of avoiding it, and the game is going to be mostly decided by unit choice.

[DemolitionSquid]

Demo, there's a limit on how "awesome" you can make a unit without shit happening. For example: Immortals eats Tanks alive, so to compensate win ratio, you make Hellions eat Light units alive, and at the end you have a bunch of very hard counters, with units dying en-masse without really much way of avoiding it, and the game is going to be mostly decided by unit choice.

Well sure, if you START with the most epic shit and it just gets worse from there, like Blizzard did with their "lets think of the coolest crap possible and hope it works!" philosophy.

[Nicol Bolas]

So far, SC2 balancing is reduced to stats changing. Something that anybody can do on the map editor. I mean really???? Are they telling us that they reached their creative limit????

This is the general level of discourse one expects from KadajSouba: excessive punctuation, not-grammar, and anti-Logic that would make Archer cringe in fear.

The SC2 map editor can be used to make entirely different genres of games. If you're saying that reaching one's "creative limits" means "only what can be done in the map editor," then there's not much in terms of "creative limits" out there.

Furthermore, most of the balance changes that took SC1's balance from "kinda crappy" to "reasonably balanced" were done as things you could do in SC1's map editor. Modifying unit and building stats.

So I don't know where this "creative limits" crap is coming from.

[Wankey]

This is the general level of discourse one expects from KadajSouba: excessive punctuation, not-grammar, and anti-Logic that would make Archer cringe in fear.

The SC2 map editor can be used to make entirely different genres of games. If you're saying that reaching one's "creative limits" means "only what can be done in the map editor," then there's not much in terms of "creative limits" out there.

Furthermore, most of the balance changes that took SC1's balance from "kinda crappy" to "reasonably balanced" were done as things you could do in SC1's map editor. Modifying unit and building stats.

So I don't know where this "creative limits" crap is coming from.

I think he's just limited creatively to understand what they are doing in terms of how to balance the game.

[KadajSouba]

Im glad that I can give a purpose to your lives. Oh dont thank me. And the funniest thing is that wankey is saying almost the same that im saying, just look at his spine crawler thread. He must have some personal problem, so its ok lad.

What I was saying is that they are modifying the game with the most mediocre way possible. Creating something, and later destroying it completely by changing its stats. Look at the roach, look at the mothership, the Thor. Thats what i am saying...

Not-grammar? yes-nice.