Does lifting off your Command Center actually make a difference on Twilight Fortress?

[endserenading]

Before I elaborate in any way, I just want to say that I despise Twilight Fortress. Yuck.

To shift into a topic less opinionated, I have a question regarding Twilight Fortress--or any map where this technique may seem beneficial, for that matter.

I played a game not too long ago (Z+P vs. P+T) where my Terran opponent lifted off his Command Center at the beginning of the match to land and harvest in the high-yield area. I should have adapted quickly to this kind of cheese, but I had never seen it before and thus assumed that it was almost frivolous.

Regardless, we ended up winning the match but it was most likely due to the Protoss player being awful. Furthermore, I have a question for you number-crunchers, think-tanks, and strategists out there: is this an effective strategy? I'm honestly a huge noob to Terran (both playing and opposing) strategy, so I'm not too proficient on Terran technicalities. Obviously a build like this wouldn't work against rush-heavy opponents, but it may seem beneficial to those who are less aggressive in the beginning. I'm not sure how to do the math for this--in fact, even if I were, I'd probably never have the motivation to do it--so I'd like to get some perspective.

I'd love to hear any thoughts on the matter. Although I'd preferably like to hear from Platinum or experienced players, theory-crafting and anecdotes aren't going to hurt either.

[Gamepro03]

If you harrass the players like you should try to always do, in order to keep yourself economically better than them, you'll be able to see he went there. That's a start.

Now, the high-yield minerals have 1 less mineral field than the starting base, which in long term is a bad thing, and won't help them out. It will simply get mined out fast. Also, this base is very open to attack, and since they took the time to float this thing all the way over there, instead of building anything to protect themselves from an easy harrass, they've pretty much lost... assuming you do go and kill their harvesters.

So, it's a way for players to get minerals faster in the long term (but not for a longer time.. they'll have to expland soon), but it's a very open move, very suceptible to harrassment from another player, and so easy to kill seeing as there are multiple sides to come into the base from.

Personally, as a Terran player, I wouldn't even try this. All of the top players learn to harrass very well, and putting yourself in this position without any defence is just asking for trouble. Not that I haven't seen games where this was slightly successfull, but in all of those game the person who floated their base to a high yield zone wound up not expanding soon, and losing because they ran out of minerals quickly.

And besides... who would expand when you're counstantly getting pounded on from every direction?

Edit: I also want to say that the time you spent floating your Command Center there, you could instead be building SCV's. And... that many less SCV's than you could have had at your starting area probably makes it even worse to move there. Less SCVs mining less fields, even at a 1.4x boost, but so much later in the game when your opponent could have made 1 zealot or 2 zerglings or a reaper.. or it's coming soon.

[flak4321]

gamepro03 sums it up nicely. SaharaDrac does his own take in this 3 part video:

http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...82/w5rbwa3j9bM
http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...81/Cg9WBUfFMXg
http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...80/jY7pETeDEQ0

He also talks about "concaves" or what others call "surrounds" in attacks and defense.

His overall opinion on lifting for the gold early is it is a bust. This game is on Metalopolis, and golds have only 6 mineral nodes intead of the 8 at the main. This leads to 4 less workers to saturate.

Someone can correct my figures:

Main: 5 min/trip x 16 workers = 80 min/group trip
Gold: 10 min/trip x 12 workers = 120 min/group trip

This looks promising, but the extra income is caught up in defense spending. In the example video, the Terran player blocks off half the map with some interesting Planetary Fortress placement, but loses in the end.

From this video, the gold may give an early income boost, but between the time lost to move and the defense spending, the advantage is extremely brief, if at all. The better bet is to build up your main then expand to the gold first if you really want that boost.

[Hoywolf]

Proper scouting will show you that he's main base is missing from the starting location, its best to look for it and start a rush vs. it, its in such a prone area that it will be more costly then beneficially.

I think you better off with the free expansion and a single chokepoint in terms of advantage, corn is best as a 2nd or 3rd base expansion not really a first base strat, you waste to much time and econ just to get there that is it not worth it.

[Islandsnake]

Its prbly safer to just fast expo there lol Thats pretty much what I do

[TWD]

Its prbly safer to just fast expo there lol Thats pretty much what I do

Dangit! Someone beat me to it. Do this if you know your opponent is going to mass up, and won't be much trouble early on. Most players are only focused on your natural, and if they are building up (ie mass voidrays) they aren't going to even bother checking what you are doing.
________
HEAVENSCENT69

[endserenading]

Dangit! Someone beat me to it. Do this if you know your opponent is going to mass up, and won't be much trouble early on. Most players are only focused on your natural, and if they are building up (ie mass voidrays) they aren't going to even bother checking what you are doing.

Yeah, this is usually what I do too in games where I know I can get away with it.

Thanks for the input, everyone; some really good points were made. If I would've ventured a guess, I would have figured lifting off would prove futile. But like I said, I don't know too much about Terran intricacies, so I thought I'd open up some discussion.

[Twilice]

gamepro03 sums it up nicely. SaharaDrac does his own take in this 3 part video:

http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...82/w5rbwa3j9bM
http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...81/Cg9WBUfFMXg
http://www.youtube.com/starcraftlega...80/jY7pETeDEQ0

He also talks about "concaves" or what others call "surrounds" in attacks and defense.

His overall opinion on lifting for the gold early is it is a bust. This game is on Metalopolis, and golds have only 6 mineral nodes intead of the 8 at the main. This leads to 4 less workers to saturate.

Someone can correct my figures:

Main: 5 min/trip x 16 workers = 80 min/group trip
Gold: 10 min/trip x 12 workers = 120 min/group trip

This looks promising, but the extra income is caught up in defense spending. In the example video, the Terran player blocks off half the map with some interesting Planetary Fortress placement, but loses in the end.

From this video, the gold may give an early income boost, but between the time lost to move and the defense spending, the advantage is extremely brief, if at all. The better bet is to build up your main then expand to the gold first if you really want that boost.

You get 7 for gold => 84

[flak4321]

You get 7 for gold => 84

Yeah, I thought my figures were off. Thanks for the assist! I assume this is for the gold? Am I right for the regular? If so, the advantage is so small it might as well not exist.

[agentheart]

ive seen someone do this and win
but it was kulas ravine and it was a 1 v2/3 and he was better significantly better his oppenants